I used to think that my difficulties with girls was pretty much separate from more general socializing. after all I could socialize and talk with people I wasn't romantically attracted to alright(relatively).

But I have recently realized that there is a common thread hidden through all my social interactions whether romantic or not. that common thread is suppression of SELF EXPRESSION. you see even as I am able to talk with people in a regular setting I avoided expressing myself in anyway that might have risked embarrassment. so lets say I was in a group of guys I was hanging with, I would avoid saying a joke or giving a comment that risked being awkward or not seen as funny. why did I do this? cause I was afraid of peer rejection. this same exact feeling I believe is what makes dealing with girls I am attracted to hard, you see it is the risk of peer rejection magnified to the power of ten. I care far more what this girl I am attracted to thinks about me, so any move that may lead to awkwardness or rejection becomes something to avoid at all cost. but of curse romance is all about expressing oneself to the subject of attraction. so you begin to see where exactly the problem located at.

So what is the solution you might ask.
well I should first say that even with this proposed solution there is no denying the monumental undertaking that is facing L.S head on. this/our problem won't be fixed quickly, It definitely takes time to make the change.
But in all objectivity our problem lies in our fear of self expression and the solution to problem is understanding the fact that when our attempts at self expression go wrong It really isn't a big deal!! Our peers, our friends and classmates and even the girls we hit on quickly forget and let go of our missteps and embarrassing moments, after all they have to worry about their own awkward and embarrassing moments. sure some really rare cases of messing up do cost us a girl or it might make a group of guys think we are lame for a short while. But dude these people are more concerned about themselves than they are of how lame you might be.

It is also true that in the beginning messing up is more frequent and can very easily discourage anyone from expressing themselves. but after a while you do start getting a hang on what will work with people, you can even learn to how to make an awkward moment into an opportunity for a funny comeback and in doing so you are in a way capable of crowd control.

I came to this conclusion in these last few days, a friend of mine gave me the idea. this guy is a pretty funny guy and every time we hang out with other people he is making tones of great jokes, but pointed out to me that a few of his jokes once in a while just don't get laughs, but he said I he doesn't give a fuck and neither do his friends, in fact no one really remembers it after a few minutes.
I tested it out myself! at work I tried saying something funny to customers and coworkers and of curse some of them did fall flat and that did make me worried. but after a week or so I find that not only do my jokes come out better, but my coworker are starting to like me more and they want to talk and spend time with me more.
But what about girls? well I tried the same strategy, In this case I tried to look at girls I was attracted to more often, at first It seemed to creep some of them out and I suspect that was cause my eyebrow showed that I was anxious. but when I became a bit calmer I noticed that if I look at a girl passing by and raise my eyebrow a little as if I have noticed her, some of the times the girls actually smile and even say hi.

I am gonna try to hit on a girl I like tomorrow and this Idea gives me peace. I have already talked to this girl a few times and since I have managed to keep a smile on my face while talking to her, she seems to kinda like, if not as a date as a potentially fun friend.
what you guys think of my idea guys. am I onto something?

Exactly the mentality I just stumbled upon, it not only improved my LS situation but ever facet of my life.

I think is a great proposal of love-shies here, but what do you do when you're aware of the irrationality of your fears and still you can't overcome them?

you start small! first start expressing yourself to the fullest with the people you are most comfortable. there are things people don't even tell their family members, well it is time to change that. do something embarrassing in front of your siblings, It will help in lessening the extent to which you feel embarrassed about that particular thing. you(we) got to chip away at the barriers between ourselves and others.
once people learn to express themselves in public more easily they find that other people(friends and girls) start feeling like extended parts of their own psyche. and that is how it was supposed to be from the start, humans are social beings, an absence of sufficient socializing really does leave a person handicapped, not just because we need company, but also because other people help us notice and correct some of our misconceptions about reality.

you might thing this modern world of our is apathetic, and while that may be true for a portion of the population, the majority of people do want to see someone else unhappy, so if you extend a hand towards someone the other person is most likely going to also extend their hand at least part of the way!

It worked! today the girl I have had a crush on for a while approached me herself and initiated a long personal conversation. I had a feeling this would happen in the last week or so I have had small very chill talks with her (which I initiated) and maintained a very friendly fun attitude. I have also been having a lot of eye contact with her from on side of the class room to the other, my old self would have looked down or else where every time she would look at me, now that I am keeping eye contact it is definitely giving her the clue that I am attracted to her and I suppose that is why she approached me after class today!

I feel like a whole new world is opening up to me , But I shouldn't get ahead of myself. even if this girl doesn't work out I think every girl after this will be a little easier.
rejoice bothers the chains of L.S can be broken (corny line I know)

Ask her out

In a way I have, not exactly on a date yet though. I have arranged with her to go out with a group of our classmates. after I get to know her a little more that day I will ask her on a personal one on one date.

Awesome. Good luck, dude. Make a move sooner rather than later.

I think your discovery definitely has merit, and I can back it up with my own experiences. One of the ways I overcame LS (to a large degree) was by letting go of the need to avoid embarrassment, whether to my peers or to women I was attracted to. I realized I was not perfect and never was going to be, and neither was anyone else, and it was not only pointless but counterproductive to try and make people believe I was.

What seems like a simple "derp" realization at first glance is quite profound to people who have the natural tendency to overanalyze everything and be brutally critical of themselves. Easier said than done I know, but the absolute best advice is to let that shit go.

This is most likely what some people mean when they say "be yourself." Doesn't mean there isn't room for self-improvement, but let go of the quest for perfection because it isn't going to happen.

Something that became very clear to me on my trip was that the one person out of the three of us with the most DSR experience has _zero_ shame. At least that's what it looked like to me.

I don't get shame as described in this thread. If I stole money, I would have shame, If I hurt someone who did not deserve it, I would feel shame...but making a miscue with other people or telling an unfunny joke or even striking out with a women...no shame in that.

As much as his posts didn't elicit a whole lot of support from some tribes, there was a lot of wisdom in lifetimer's volumous thread on toxic shame last year.

FUCK!!!
I psyched out today! I thought I would be more self assured today since now it seems much more likely that girl likes me. but I just held off talking to her until I would get a clear and overt sign that she wanted to talk to me, well It didn't come, as It seems she was waiting till I made the move. I didn't make a move after all. at the end of the class she sighed a little and left.

not only that later on when walking away from one of my classes, I heard someone sigh from behind me and then I see her ride her bike past me. logically I should have used my chance to say hi, but I didn't again cause she didn't exactly look like she was about to greet me.


this whole incident today, makes me realize that It's not that I can't attract girls to myself, I just can't capitalize n their attraction. in fact every time I get a definite vibe from a girl I start avoiding the girl. this behavior doesn't make any sense, but it maybe be rooted in a fear of her learning more about me and not liking what she learns. or I guess even that I am still not 100% sure that she likes me so the uncertainty she makes me hesitate.

at any rate I only have one or two more chances of making something out of this, I got to bring myself to what I go to do next time, or I will have regretful holiday this year. I guess L.S is not done with me

Like I say, it's like alcoholism. You have to keep an eye on yourself to stop from slipping into the comfort zone. The twisted lines of logic that your own brain will try to feed you in order to maintain that comfort are incredible.

exactly, I am starting to become convinced that to beat L.S I have to constantly put myself in social situations that are difficult for me to deal with. for instance I think I should hit on at least one or two girls between now and next time I see this girl, that way I will be in the mode and mindset necessary make things go smoothly. I know part of the reason It is so difficult for me to deal with this girl is because I am so attracted to her. YEAH I need to warm up my social engine. I can do this I just need to get in the zone