Hi

I'm 30 and identify myself as LS, though I didn't know there was a word for my situation until recently. I find it impossible to approach girls because I'm shy and don't know what to say, plus I'm unattractive and I know they'll reject me anyway. No girls were ever interested in a relationship with me (or even so much as kissing me) and I was repeatedly friend-zoned by girls I liked. Maybe I'd beg enough for her to eventually agree to one date, or a mutual friend would persuade her because "he's such a nice guy". Then the date would be incredibly uncomfortable because she obviously regretted coming, and at the end she'd avoid kissing me and say we should just be friends. Not that I had a lot of dates - I could count my lifetime dates on the fingers of one hand.

Then somehow, miraculously, I ended up with a girlfriend. We've been dating for over two years. I still have no idea how this happened

She was the younger sister of a girl in my group of friends, and I was attracted to her but didn't dare make a move in case she was grossed out by me, as most women seem to be. Eventually girlfriend's sister approached me and said was I not interested cause girlfriend was being really flirty and I just wasn't responding. I hadn't even picked up on it, but I said I was definitely interested and her sister set us up on a date. One date went ok, so we had another, and another, and somehow a couple of years passed without her dumping me. I 'fessed up about my virginity and she was actually cool with it and willing to be patient while I figured out which bits went where

So this sounds pretty cool right? Everything I wished for when I was alone? Well I guess my daydreams didn't go beyond dating a pretty girl and having sex. What do I do next?

I still wonder why the hell she's with me. I'm unattractive. I'm not wealthy. I wonder if she's going to leave me, and I think eventually she has to come to her senses and I'll be alone again. I don't feel cured of LS - if I was alone again I still wouldn't have the confidence to approach girls. I don't think I'd ever be lucky enough to get another girlfriend. Sometimes I think my girlfriend must have something wrong with her because she's interested in me.

It seems to be accepted that after a few years of dating a couple should consider marriage. I can't even ask a girl on a date - how the hell am I supposed to ask one to marry me? Anyway, do I really want to be the schmuck who marries his first girlfriend without sowing his wild oats? Who am I kidding - I don't think I'd even be capable of sowing oats cause no other girls have ever let me plant them! But how do I know if she's the one when I haven't been with anyone else? Her sister actually asked me if I was serious about the relationship because my girlfriend had invested a lot of time and was starting to wonder if it was going anywhere. So if I don't step up and propose before too long she might leave cause the relationship isn't going anywhere.

So as you can see I'm pretty screwed up and have no idea what to do. But it highlights a major problem with LS - it doesn't stop once you get lucky and score a relationship - it just triggers a whole load of new issues. What do I do?

Get the hell off this forum and talk about it.

With her.

edit: Sorry, maybe I should elaborate a bit. Thing is, that relationship isn't going to improve without getting closer to each other.. if telling her how you feel deep down means she does no longer accept you, it wasn't going to work anyway.

That's exactly what I mean when I say you just don't "get over it"...

If you have to ask for advice, I think It's pretty safe to say that you're already screwed. I'd tell you to do what you feel is right, but that's a little too generic these days. No one listens to that kind of advice.

You've described a situation very similar to the one I was in, in 2004. After being completely LS before, I had stumbled into a relationship by luck rather than by skill; I still had no experience in approaching or trying to form a relationship. Eventually we broke up and I was back to square one for three more years because I hadn't done anything about the central pillar of LS.

You still have time to prevent this from happening to you. You have two courses of action open to you that involve you taking charge of your own destiny (the third being maintaining the status quo and hoping for the best, which may or may not keep your girl-friend but will definitely not cure your LS.) You can direct your efforts toward strengthening your relationship, or instead towards defeating your LS (or both.)

First, sit down and ask yourself: Do you - maybe not today, but in future - want to get married, have kids, etc.? Next, think about if you want this relationship to "go (some)where". Leave your LS out of the equation when you think about this. Would you be with her even if you did have options? LS can be cured with enough work, so don't let it cloud your judgment, don't start thinking "it's her or nobody". Those who marry the wrong person out of desperation will eventually find the "front" becomes too heavy to keep up, and then they can look forward only to strife, acrimony, unhappiness and eventually a bitter divorce.

At some point, you are going to have to involve your girl-friend in these thoughts, and it should be sooner rather than later. There is a possibility that she has been waiting for you to broach the subject and that she intentionally asked her sister to prod you about it. You will have to ask her for her thoughts as well, because if you try to guess and guess wrong, then any conclusions you come to by yourself will also be wrong. By this time, it should be possible for you to talk about it openly; if you don't feel you can, you may want to reconsider the whole thing. Remember what you want, and remember what you are and are not willing to compromise on.

You may find that you both want to move things forward. In this case, you're good to go. You don't need to think of yourself as a schmuck for keeping your first girl-friend if she is really what you want. If she isn't, then you're not likely to come to this paragraph in the first place. It would still be wise to put a little bit of effort into defeating LS, just in case - but it can be less of a priority, you can just practice socializing when you can. Put more effort into continuing to take charge, don't let yourself get too comfortable or complacent nor drift back into passivity.

You may find that you both want to maintain the status quo, at least for awhile. You will probably want to make moderate effort to defeat your LS in this case, because it's possible that things will go south a couple years hence and you will need the approach skills then. Read Gilmartin's book if you haven't already, and come up with some kind of system to defeat your LS. Check the "Recovery" section for inspiration, if you like. As you chip away at your LS, your girl-friend will probably notice you becoming more assertive, and this may bring you closer together, or it may hasten your breakup. Bottom line is, you'll have an answer one way or the other.

You also might find that it's going nowhere and go your separate ways. In this case, all of your efforts should be directed towards defeating your LS. Read everything you can find on the subject, come up with a plan and stick to it. I recommend an incremental system using sex sites, but there's plenty of other ways to attack your LS. Don't wait. The longer your procrastinate, the more set in your ways you become and the harder it will be to change your LS (and the more fun you miss out on!)

Speak for yourself. getting laid helped me move on to other women and nail some more pussy.

Dump her and move on, or marry her and remain a chump. Your choice, man.

Whatever you do, do NOT tell her you have to think about sowing your wild oats first.

Just to clarify - which causes you more stress or anxiety, the idea of proposing to your girlfriend, or the idea of being committed to her for the rest of your life? Commitment phobia is usually seen as separate from LS, even if related.

I'm totally fine with the idea of marrying the right girl.. but is she the right girl? How can I know when I haven't had the opportunity to date others? We argue sometimes and then make up.. is that normal or are we not suited to each other? Is the sex good or not? I have no way to compare. Also I feel like a total loser if I marry the first and only girl who would have me while the other assholes score with every chick in town.

When I was single I thought I just wanted a pretty girlfriend to make out with. Now I have one and it doesn't seem enough, it doesn't seem fair when asshole guys have lots of girls and I have just one. Maybe I'm getting greedy, cause I know lots of guys would be glad to get just one pretty girl who wants to be with them. She's great and I don't want to lose her, but I can't help feeling like I've been screwed over in the dating game.

Also I'm not sure if I'm ready for marriage. Most people have a decade of experience before they're ready to get married. Girls my age have over a decade of experience, they're more than ready. I still feel like a kid who's feeling out my first relationship.. compared to others my age I'm like a teenager. Maybe I'm not experienced enough to be ready to commit.. but that means I'll lose my chance with girls who are ready and won't wait for me to catch up on that decade of experience.

Arguing and making up is normal - to an extent. But it's normal anyway.

Is the sex good? Well, do you enjoy it? You say nothing about what you actually feel.

I cringe when I read "other guys have plenty of girls and I have just one". Gosh, dude, wake up! Do you like this girl? Are you happy with her? Do you enjoy her company? That's all that matters.

So to sum up:
- she's pretty
- she didn't run away when she learnt you were a virgin
- she seems okay from what you say (not much)

And still you envy guys who sure, may fuck and chuck random chicks 24/7 but who might never have someone valuable in their life? You know it's just a passing pleasure, nothing valuable, and that someone who sticks by you for 2 years is likely not a fraud?

Another thing: you say you don't get why she's with you. Who cares? You surely have a low self-esteem and seem to try to find reasons to justify it. She's been with you all this time, she, for one, knows what she's doing with you. So be careful about not letting your own biased judgement about yourself cloud your relationship. If you don't want to commit, that's fine, but just tell her, don't try to escape the discussion. Maybe she doesn't want to commit more seriously either. Marriage doesn't have to come after 2 years, there is no rule in that matter.

Good advice, Dsea.

Pretty much this.

There are plenty of fish in the sea, but please don't throw this one back. You're really not that good of a fisherman.

Don't blow what for most LS/Incels is a once in a lifetime opportunity. You might not get so lucky again.

Don't blow it. If I had a pretty, kind girl I would do everything in my mortal power to try to make her happy. You never know when or if you'll ever get a gf again. I'd hang onto a good thing. I personally don't care about sowing oats or anything, I would be happy with just one, I think. I don't care what society thinks of me. It's up to you, though

That's exactly what I thought when I was alone. It's like when you don't have something you want it, but once you get it you aren't satisfied, you just want more. Maybe I've started taking it for granted and got greedy.


Of course I have low self esteem after being incel for over a decade while everyone else my age was dating! I wonder what the hell she sees in me when no other girl would even kiss me. I wonder if she's crazy or has made a mistake and thinks I'm rich. She's actually pretty and nice, and she likes me, which seems totally weird and wrong somehow. I don't even know how I got her to date me because I can't think of anything I did different! She just liked me and asked her sister to set us up, I didn't do anything!


Yeah, this is what I'm worried about. What if I blow it? What if she changes her mind about me, or I haven't got the balls to propose before she gets sick of waiting, or she meets some asshole and he steals her? I don't feel cured at all - I still have low self esteem, no idea how to approach women, this whole thing is a total fluke. I don't feel like I have enough relationship experience to deal with how serious a relationship in your thirties is supposed to be, but if I start acting like a weirdo who has no clue she might leave.