LS.com homepage  •   LS.com FAQ  •   Resources
In the media  •   Articles  •   WIKI
It is currently 23 Nov 2017, 08:50

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Forum rules


This is the one of the guest-viewable discussion areas. If you haven't already, sign up as a user (everything is, and always will be, completely free)! Users can engage in discussion in both guest-viewable and member-only subforums. There's also an arcade.

Please post in good faith. We support freedom of speech here but deliberately inflammatory posts will be deleted. Use common sense when writing posts and be sure to read the guidelines (and weep) before posting.



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 52 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: 28 May 2011, 13:24 
Offline
Elite Contributor

Joined: 22 Feb 2010, 09:55
Posts: 3513
Thanks: 14
Thanked:
16 times in 14 posts
marklander wrote:
I see no reason why I can't give this a try, although it helps to have someone to hold you accountable. Returning adult diapers and small condoms, that's sadistic, but I love it!


We could continue this thread or start another where we hold each other accountable and report back if that is something you want.


Top
 Profile  
Thanks  
PostPosted: 28 May 2011, 18:35 
Offline
Contributor
User avatar

Joined: 21 Mar 2011, 14:12
Posts: 692
Location: Australia
Thanks: 148
Thanked:
106 times in 64 posts
Highscores: 1
Really interesting thread, and I'm glad the poster had the success he did with it. It does make me wonder WTF is wrong with me though.
I'm not denying that I'm totally introverted now, have always avoided parties and going out, don't do anything social for months at a time (and only when obligated) and am now living like a bum off savings from a more prosperous past. I'm sure I would benefit from getting out there a bit more, BUT....

I used to confront a lot of fears on principle, I could make myself do anything I "had" to. Playing and singing unaccompanied for school concerts, and some performances after school. As a previously "loner musician" I decided to try to get into the senior rugby team at school. I used to shit myself on the long bus trips to games, butterflies the whole time at the prospect of failure, of violence, and shame. On my 18th birthday I was cheered off the team bus for putting in some big hits, my coach told me if selectors were there I'd have been picked for a rep team, AND a guy who later played for our country came up to me in the changerooms after and shook my hand and said some nice stuff. Awesome memories.

I've never been afraid to ask questions in lectures at uni, participate in class etc.
Of the tasks listed, maybe the one that makes me balk the most is take adult incontinence wear and condoms into the chemist. I'd probably have to put on a creepy voice and make it even worse. I can play the fool without inhibition. Many stories, I'll tell a few, sorry to write a novel. Nothing was inspired by drugs or alcohol, I don't drink or anything.
  • A couple of weeks ago, a jerk tram driver wasn't answering people who asked him questions about the service. So I went up the front, in front of the people on the tram, tapped on the window and started asking questions in a retarded voice, asking him if we were at a tram stop when we clearly were etc.
  • I sometimes pull my pants up as high as they will go, tuck my shirt in, and walk like a douchebag through shopping aisles. I do it if I'm with someone who thinks that kind of stuff is funny, but I can embarrass them too.
  • I will make up awkward half-conversations if someone comes into evesdropping distance when talking to a friend. Again in the shopping aisle, I loudly told my sister I hoped she didn't think I was going to eat any of the food that she was buying, it looked disgusting, called her a bitch etc. Only when people were close enough to hear.
  • I got my kind-of-oneitis-by-default to walk with me to a service station late at night, in the city in her pink pyjama's, while I wore something dumb (I forget, it wasn't as good as her pyjama's though).
  • Outside a venue where a band was playing, people lined up to get in, me and two "friends" (I see them a couple of times a year) spontaneously started acting like jerks, I loaded him and her into a shopping trolley, we started making retard sounds and I pushed them around on the street, over gutters and onto the road etc.

I guess if I'm honest though, when I act like that I'm still in control in my own way. If I make a fool of myself on purpose, I'm doing it on my own terms.
But honestly, I can talk to people, I don't know. I don't think I have social anxiety, it's social apathy.


Top
 Profile  
Thanks  
PostPosted: 28 May 2011, 20:22 
Offline
Neil Strauss wannabe
User avatar

Joined: 18 Apr 2010, 20:22
Posts: 871
Location: Gone Fishin'
Thanks: 51
Thanked:
43 times in 39 posts
Awesome post: This advice has steps.

There's no reason anyone here couldn't go out and follow 90% of this program on their own.

_________________
"Don't try."- Charles Bukowski

I have signatures disabled.


Top
 Profile  
Thanks  
PostPosted: 28 May 2011, 21:45 
Offline
Elite Contributor
User avatar

Joined: 26 Oct 2010, 05:33
Posts: 4361
Location: samsara
Thanks: 78
Thanked:
232 times in 165 posts
worry in the back of my head though... This guys situations all seemed to go ok. But what happens when they don't? Isn't that what causes shyness in the first place, embarrassing, traumatic events? I would think someone reacting negatively, like if the dog owner was a bitch, could potentially make things worse. I think a negative outcome has a greater effect than 3 positive ones, but that's just me...

_________________


Top
 Profile  
Thanks  
PostPosted: 28 May 2011, 21:55 
Offline
Super Contributor
User avatar

Joined: 05 May 2010, 19:26
Posts: 1249
Location: USFA (United States of Fuckin America)
Thanks: 40
Thanked:
80 times in 48 posts
What an awesome therapist, she keeps on raising the bar, when you struggle on completing one task she gives you a challenging one but not so difficult that its out of your reach. I need to look for a session like this. Although my social anxiety isn't as crippling as before it is still a handicap. Shit, reading his free roam session on chatting up random people made me feel tense, especially the bit with the dog owner. I had to take a break from reading a few times because my mind was going into overdrive like I was actually in that position! I need to look for classes in my area, it would be worth the money.

_________________
When a mind does not *know* itself, it is flawed.
When a mind is flawed, the man is flawed.
When a man is flawed, that which he touches is flawed.
It is said that what a flawed man sees, his hands make broken.


Top
 Profile  
Thanks  
PostPosted: 28 May 2011, 21:57 
Offline
Elite Contributor
User avatar

Joined: 26 Oct 2010, 05:33
Posts: 4361
Location: samsara
Thanks: 78
Thanked:
232 times in 165 posts
Temperance wrote:
marklander wrote:
I see no reason why I can't give this a try, although it helps to have someone to hold you accountable. Returning adult diapers and small condoms, that's sadistic, but I love it!


We could continue this thread or start another where we hold each other accountable and report back if that is something you want.


Make it so

_________________


Top
 Profile  
Thanks  
PostPosted: 28 May 2011, 23:20 
Offline
Contributor

Joined: 02 Dec 2009, 22:16
Posts: 526
Thanks: 10
Thanked:
5 times in 5 posts
mrping wrote:
worry in the back of my head though... This guys situations all seemed to go ok. But what happens when they don't? Isn't that what causes shyness in the first place, embarrassing, traumatic events? I would think someone reacting negatively, like if the dog owner was a bitch, could potentially make things worse. I think a negative outcome has a greater effect than 3 positive ones, but that's just me...


Exactly what I was thinking. I'm already easily discouraged and feel traumatized by the most trivial embarrassments.

Like I said in the other thread, I've always wanted to read something as in-depth as this about CBT, but it pretty much ensures I'll avoid it like the plague.


Top
 Profile  
Thanks  
PostPosted: 28 May 2011, 23:56 
Offline
Elite Contributor

Joined: 22 Feb 2010, 09:55
Posts: 3513
Thanks: 14
Thanked:
16 times in 14 posts
subnormal wrote:
mrping wrote:
worry in the back of my head though... This guys situations all seemed to go ok. But what happens when they don't? Isn't that what causes shyness in the first place, embarrassing, traumatic events? I would think someone reacting negatively, like if the dog owner was a bitch, could potentially make things worse. I think a negative outcome has a greater effect than 3 positive ones, but that's just me...


Exactly what I was thinking. I'm already easily discouraged and feel traumatized by the most trivial embarrassments.

Like I said in the other thread, I've always wanted to read something as in-depth as this about CBT, but it pretty much ensures I'll avoid it like the plague.


I think the point is to experience some of those embarrassments that seem trivial to others and work up to a point that they are no longer so discouraging and traumatizing. To get your head space to a point that yep it's embarrassing but no one else really cared or took more than 5 seconds notice and I am still ok. It isn't the big drama I thought it was. - Even to feel some success that you had a go. It might have sucked but you did it. Gain some pride and self satisfaction.


Top
 Profile  
Thanks  
PostPosted: 29 May 2011, 01:06 
Offline
Poster

Joined: 13 Jul 2010, 10:27
Posts: 207
Location: United States
Thanks: 1
Thanked:
3 times in 2 posts
I think one element that might make this therapy more successful in group situations than doing it on your own is that the group provides motivation. If you fail to complete a task that only you are monitoring, you can rationalize your failure as being due to external factors and in doing so, keep yourself from making progress. If you fail to complete a task as a member of a group like the one described, then you have to deal with the feelings of shame associated with being a coward when the other group members were successful.

I know that for me at least, it's always easier to accomplish a task when someone else is depending on its completion rather than myself. I used to have a huge phobia of driving, and avoided going out as much as possible so as to avoid driving, but if someone else needed to be driven somewhere, I always managed to somehow overcome my misgivings and rise to the occasion. Whenever I needed to drive myself somewhere, I usually just talked myself out of going. So in a way, I've already undergone CBT, just not for my social anxiety.


Top
 Profile  
Thanks  
PostPosted: 29 May 2011, 01:29 
Offline
Elite Contributor

Joined: 22 Feb 2010, 09:55
Posts: 3513
Thanks: 14
Thanked:
16 times in 14 posts
Tich wrote:
I think one element that might make this therapy more successful in group situations than doing it on your own is that the group provides motivation. If you fail to complete a task that only you are monitoring, you can rationalize your failure as being due to external factors and in doing so, keep yourself from making progress. If you fail to complete a task as a member of a group like the one described, then you have to deal with the feelings of shame associated with being a coward when the other group members were successful.

I know that for me at least, it's always easier to accomplish a task when someone else is depending on its completion rather than myself. I used to have a huge phobia of driving, and avoided going out as much as possible so as to avoid driving, but if someone else needed to be driven somewhere, I always managed to somehow overcome my misgivings and rise to the occasion. Whenever I needed to drive myself somewhere, I usually just talked myself out of going. So in a way, I've already undergone CBT, just not for my social anxiety.


I agree that being accountable to a group or therapist in person is a much better scenario and is something that would likely help many here. Especially as a therapist is trained.

The reality is we don't all have the funds or access for whatever reason.

People seem to feel that there are steps in the story that we could do ourselves so between us we will pick those out. Part of the process is valuing yourself as much as you would value the therapist you would report back to. People could still lie and say they did the task here, but I am sure they would still feel the shame of not having completed it even though the rest of us don't know about it.


Top
 Profile  
Thanks  
PostPosted: 29 May 2011, 20:12 
Offline
Neil Strauss wannabe
User avatar

Joined: 18 Apr 2010, 20:22
Posts: 871
Location: Gone Fishin'
Thanks: 51
Thanked:
43 times in 39 posts
mrping wrote:
worry in the back of my head though... This guys situations all seemed to go ok. But what happens when they don't? Isn't that what causes shyness in the first place, embarrassing, traumatic events? I would think someone reacting negatively, like if the dog owner was a bitch, could potentially make things worse. I think a negative outcome has a greater effect than 3 positive ones, but that's just me...


Waiting for a 'sure thing' to do this stuff would be counterproductive, not to mention unrealistic. There has to be possibility of failure or you would learn nothing.

But hey, nobody changes until they actually want to change. Addicts, Introverts, Assholes... all keep steady on the course until they want to change. If you don't really want to change yet... don't. It wouldn't stick anyways.

_________________
"Don't try."- Charles Bukowski

I have signatures disabled.


Top
 Profile  
Thanks  
PostPosted: 30 May 2011, 00:26 
Offline
Contributor

Joined: 05 May 2008, 00:01
Posts: 740
Location: New England
Thanks: 79
Thanked:
184 times in 110 posts
Thanks for posting this. A very interesting read. I'd like to make a few points. I don't agree with the therapist's approach to exposure. To me this is like teaching to swim by throwing them in the deep end of the pool. I think a "baby steps" approach would be more appropriate. For example where he had to approach people on the subway with the survey, instead he could have approach someone and said for example "can you tell me which train to take to Fenway Park?" Also being from the Boston area myself I don't agree with the cold approaching of random strangers. While I wouldn't say we Bostonians are unfriendly, we are a bit on the reserved side and like to keep to ourselves. There in fact is a very long thread about this in the City-Data forum:
http://www.city-data.com/forum/boston/1 ... -eyes.html

mrping wrote:
worry in the back of my head though... This guys situations all seemed to go ok. But what happens when they don't? Isn't that what causes shyness in the first place, embarrassing, traumatic events? I would think someone reacting negatively, like if the dog owner was a bitch, could potentially make things worse. I think a negative outcome has a greater effect than 3 positive ones, but that's just me...


This. Take for example someone who has a fear of dogs. The therapist tells that person to go out and pet dogs he sees on the streets (Yeah, yeah, I know one shouldn't get to close to strange animals but just play along with me). The first dog he sees he moves in to pet it but the dog practically rips his hand off. Has his fear of dogs been cured? Of course not! I most likely got worse. Now image what would of happened for example if one of the random strangers he had to approach gave him the f**k off signal or if while in CVS he ran into someone he knew?


Top
 Profile  
Thanks  
PostPosted: 30 May 2011, 00:41 
Offline
Elite Contributor

Joined: 22 Feb 2010, 09:55
Posts: 3513
Thanks: 14
Thanked:
16 times in 14 posts
The thing is some things you really can't learn without trying and practicing. Can you really learn to swim without getting in the water? Can you really learn to drive without getting into a car? Can you really learn to write without picking up a pen?

I agree that more baby steps are suitable and that people here are at very different levels of what they are comfortable with.

I think the reason this guy kept going though was because the task were so extreme. If someone had told him the first session was crazy ass kareoke he never would have turned up or thought he could do it.
Yet he got there, was thrown in so to speak, but achieved it. Yes he hated every second of it. He sang badly. He was scared.

However he got through it and achieved something he thought he never would.

That feeling of achievement is powerful and confidence building. That is what the therapist was giving him.


Top
 Profile  
Thanks  
PostPosted: 30 May 2011, 01:01 
Offline
Contributor

Joined: 05 May 2008, 00:01
Posts: 740
Location: New England
Thanks: 79
Thanked:
184 times in 110 posts
Quote:
Can you really learn to swim without getting in the water?

You start off in the shallow end of the pool
Quote:
Can you really learn to drive without getting into a car?

You start off by driving around the side streets in your neighborhood not by right away driving on the Los Angeles freeway during rush hour.


Top
 Profile  
Thanks  
PostPosted: 30 May 2011, 01:04 
Offline
Elite Contributor

Joined: 22 Feb 2010, 09:55
Posts: 3513
Thanks: 14
Thanked:
16 times in 14 posts
Yes but you still get in the water, you still get in the car. I did and do agree about the baby steps being needed.

But I can also see that the bigger the challenge the higher the payoff of achievement is likely to be and more motivating.


Top
 Profile  
Thanks  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 52 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group