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PostPosted: 26 Feb 2012, 15:06 
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lemonlime wrote:
Any sane individual would consider your beliefs exceedingly immoral. Seriously, try taking this stuff to an outside forum where the public at large can partake and see what the world thinks of your 'morality.'


Who cares what the world thinks anyway? The majority of the people are immoral themselves.
Yes they get excited about animal rights, feminism, sports and art, but at the same time they don't have any problem with abortions for example. So big deal what the world thinks.


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PostPosted: 27 Feb 2012, 07:47 
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Malo wrote:
lemonlime wrote:
Any sane individual would consider your beliefs exceedingly immoral. Seriously, try taking this stuff to an outside forum where the public at large can partake and see what the world thinks of your 'morality.'


Who cares what the world thinks anyway? The majority of the people are immoral themselves.
Yes they get excited about animal rights, feminism, sports and art, but at the same time they don't have any problem with abortions for example. So big deal what the world thinks.


How much sentience do you think a blastocyst has?

fschmidt stop being an asshole and respond to me.


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PostPosted: 27 Feb 2012, 08:36 
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nookie monster wrote:
worldtraveler wrote:
Hey, not to sound like a jerk or anything, but I was wondering if we were going to talk about ways that we could advise a guy who might be interested in going to Latin America to find a girl there. Or is that considered taboo? :rofl: I don't mind recounting my experiences, if anyone here is interested.

You know if I was younger and had more time/money, I would definitely be seeking your help and/or advice with this, worldtraveler.


I should have headed for better places then this shit-hole fascist country, a long time ago too.

Anyone who can, should get the hell out of the USSA now, while you still are able to do so, IMO.

The good ship America, is sinking very fast indeed and the chances of saving her are not good at all.

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PostPosted: 27 Feb 2012, 08:41 
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Malo wrote:
lemonlime wrote:
Any sane individual would consider your beliefs exceedingly immoral. Seriously, try taking this stuff to an outside forum where the public at large can partake and see what the world thinks of your 'morality.'


Who cares what the world thinks anyway? The majority of the people are immoral themselves.
Yes they get excited about animal rights, feminism, sports and art, but at the same time they don't have any problem with abortions for example. So big deal what the world thinks.


And those that do care about abortion dont seem to have a care, when the US kills people in other countries.

Good point. :check:

I suppose killing fetuses is wrong, but killing children in other countries is "A-OK" with lots of these fanatics. :crazy:

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PostPosted: 27 Feb 2012, 20:15 
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oncebitten55 wrote:
I should have headed for better places then this shit-hole fascist country, a long time ago too.

Anyone who can, should get the hell out of the USSA now, while you still are able to do so, IMO.

The good ship America, is sinking very fast indeed and the chances of saving her are not good at all.


For some weirdest reason, people keep coming here - legally or otherwise - from places you admire so much. And where would you run anyway? Europe? It's in a fiscal chaos of its own. The Prosperous China? Don't forget it has a communist government without much regard to human rights. Arab countries? If you feel good about converting to Islam, maybe that's a place; but if not, I can hardly imagine you settling there. Yes, you're too bitter at America for not providing you a girlfriend and you sincerely wish it to sink. For some strange reason, however, it keeps sinking and sinking and sinknig and sinking, really really fast, but... somehow it just keeps itself afloat. At it'll keep afloat for many years to come whether you like it or not. If you really believed otherwise, you would have already fled the hell out of here. But you don't. Apparently, so far this "sinking ship" appears to be the lesser of all the evils.


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PostPosted: 27 Feb 2012, 20:49 
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New-Yorker wrote:
oncebitten55 wrote:
I should have headed for better places then this shit-hole fascist country, a long time ago too.

Anyone who can, should get the hell out of the USSA now, while you still are able to do so, IMO.

The good ship America, is sinking very fast indeed and the chances of saving her are not good at all.


For some weirdest reason, people keep coming here - legally or otherwise - from places you admire so much. And where would you run anyway? Europe? It's in a fiscal chaos of its own. The Prosperous China? Don't forget it has a communist government without much regard to human rights. Arab countries? If you feel good about converting to Islam, maybe that's a place; but if not, I can hardly imagine you settling there. Yes, you're too bitter at America for not providing you a girlfriend and you sincerely wish it to sink. For some strange reason, however, it keeps sinking and sinking and sinknig and sinking, really really fast, but... somehow it just keeps itself afloat. At it'll keep afloat for many years to come whether you like it or not. If you really believed otherwise, you would have already fled the hell out of here. But you don't. Apparently, so far this "sinking ship" appears to be the lesser of all the evils.

It's probably mostly couples that are moving to America. Many single men who move might start regtetting it after some time.

It's not just because many decent men can't get girlfriends that America sucks. It's also because it's a highly repressive police state that treats its own citizens as enemies. Only a handful of countries like North Korea, Equatorial Guinea, some Arab states like Syria, etc. are more repressive than America. Hey... even Israel seems to have better civil liberties (for its own citizens) than America.

And you forgot to include Latin America and Russia/Eastern Europe in your list.


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PostPosted: 27 Feb 2012, 23:12 
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New-Yorker wrote:
oncebitten55 wrote:
I should have headed for better places then this shit-hole fascist country, a long time ago too.

Anyone who can, should get the hell out of the USSA now, while you still are able to do so, IMO.

The good ship America, is sinking very fast indeed and the chances of saving her are not good at all.


For some weirdest reason, people keep coming here - legally or otherwise - from places you admire so much. And where would you run anyway? Europe? It's in a fiscal chaos of its own. The Prosperous China? Don't forget it has a communist government without much regard to human rights. Arab countries? If you feel good about converting to Islam, maybe that's a place; but if not, I can hardly imagine you settling there. Yes, you're too bitter at America for not providing you a girlfriend and you sincerely wish it to sink. For some strange reason, however, it keeps sinking and sinking and sinknig and sinking, really really fast, but... somehow it just keeps itself afloat. At it'll keep afloat for many years to come whether you like it or not. If you really believed otherwise, you would have already fled the hell out of here. But you don't. Apparently, so far this "sinking ship" appears to be the lesser of all the evils.


I dont think you have read too many of my posts or you would not have made these comments.

America didn't provide me with a girlfriend of which I have had quite a few now, nor did I expect it to, ever. I am no longer
love-shy, nor Incel either.

As for running, I am not going anywhere. When the next civil war comes, I am fully ready to fight all the way to the end.

So are millions of others too, so I am not alone at all. You just dont see it living in NYC where you seem to be cut off from the reality of the fascist police state that you live in, IMO.

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PostPosted: 28 Feb 2012, 06:22 
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canamoeba wrote:
It's probably mostly couples that are moving to America. Many single men who move might start regtetting it after some time.


According to my observations, a single man who moved to America on his own and has managed to achieve professional success is much less likely to have any dating troubles than an American guy who hasn't achived much and is too uncomfortable about any change.

canamoeba wrote:
It's also because it's a highly repressive police state that treats its own citizens as enemies.


It's only your power of imagination that sees America more of a police state than any European country, let alone Communist China or Putin's Russia. Obvious common sense dictates that police departments in America do what they're mandated to do - protecting the security of the population, enforcing the existing laws, and prosecuting the violator of those laws. If a guy experiences discomfort around the police, I suspect that he has individual reasons for that. And if that's the case, it doesn't put him in a positive light at all.

oncebiten55 wrote:
Hey... even Israel seems to have better civil liberties (for its own citizens) than America.


Why "even"? Because it feels more comfortable to perceive the "illegitmate" Jewish state as unfree and undemocratic? Again, the common sense dictates otherwise. As for Israel having better civil liberties than America, I feel equally comfortable in both (even though I'm not an Israeli citizen).

oncebitten55 wrote:
And you forgot to include Latin America and Russia/Eastern Europe in your list.


In terms of the political and/or economic future of those countries, there's no reason to believe that Eastern Europe is any more promising than its Western counterpart. As for Russia, its political stability and geographic integrity is much more at risk than the United States'. And don't tell me that Russia under the Putin leadership has more civil liberties than America (note that Medvedev is nothing more than Putin's puppet).

oncebitten55 wrote:
As for running, I am not going anywhere. When the next civil war comes, I am fully ready to fight all the way to the end.


What are the two sides for the potential civil war? And which side would you take?

oncebitten55 wrote:
So are millions of others too, so I am not alone at all. You just dont see it living in NYC where you seem to be cut off from the reality of the fascist police state that you live in, IMO.


Perhaps I've missed many of your posters, but in this thread you only cite the post-Katrina police violence in New Orleans, which to me seems to be an anomaly rather than a normal thing. Also, it's not that I had't been anywhere outside NYC. I'd been to many places across the country, but I've never felt any less comfortable in those places than I do in NYC. As long as you obey the laws, I don't see anything to be concerned about.

By the way, where do you live? You references to civil war suggest that you might be from somewhere in the South. I hadn't been to too many cities down there, but Atlanta and Dallas don't feel like an imminent war zone at all.


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PostPosted: 28 Feb 2012, 07:34 
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New-Yorker wrote:
Why "even"? Because it feels more comfortable to perceive the "illegitmate" Jewish state as unfree and undemocratic? Again, the common sense dictates otherwise. As for Israel having better civil liberties than America, I feel equally comfortable in both (even though I'm not an Israeli citizen).


You are mistaken about me, if you think me anti-Jewish, anti-Semite or anti-Israeli, so let's get that non-issue out of the way right now, New-Yorker.

oncebitten55 wrote:
As for running, I am not going anywhere. When the next civil war comes, I am fully ready to fight all the way to the end.


New-Yorker wrote:
What are the two sides for the potential civil war? And which side would you take?


The side of freedom from tyranny and oppression, of course. Read my sig line. The Constitution and the Bill of Rights
ARE the ultimate laws of the land. If anyone passes laws that do not meet the definitions those basic tenants, or
they unduly arrested or killed by someone using the "color of law", _they_ are criminals by definition and need to be arrested and imprisoned for failure to uphold the oath of office that they swore to do, under the Constitution.


oncebitten55 wrote:
So are millions of others too, so I am not alone at all. You just dont see it living in NYC where you seem to be cut off from the reality of the fascist police state that you live in, IMO.


New-Yorker wrote:
Perhaps I've missed many of your posters, but in this thread you only cite the post-Katrina police violence in New Orleans, which to me seems to be an anomaly rather than a normal thing. Also, it's not that I hadn't been anywhere outside NYC. I'd been to many places across the country, but I've never felt any less comfortable in those places than I do in NYC. As long as you obey the laws, I don't see anything to be concerned about.


Katrina was just a sample of things to come in the future. You see it as an anomaly, but I do not, for many reasons.

And you have made my point for me.

Many laws on the books are not constitutional at all, and neither are the various agencies charged with enforcing all these invalid laws. And too boot, there are so many laws on the books that both police, prosecuting and defense attorneys often dont even know them all. In a truly free country, with citizens who are not afraid, they would not allow such things to occur.

Thats why we need very limited government with informed citizens who can uphold the legality of any such laws in court, ala jury nullification. That happened quite a bit during Prohibition, even though it was enacted legally into law, unlike most drug, firearms and other "laws", most citizens knew it to be a bad law and refused to vote "guilty" no matter what.

New-Yorker wrote:
By the way, where do you live? You references to civil war suggest that you might be from somewhere in the South. I hadn't been to too many cities down there, but Atlanta and Dallas don't feel like an imminent war zone at all.


I live in the western portion of the US, and that's as much as I will say. The fact that you point out two large cities in the southern states, reinforces the notion I have, that you are out of touch with people who do not live in urban areas of the US, where lots of people feel much as I do about the American police state and its vast army of paid, unthinking minions.

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PostPosted: 28 Feb 2012, 14:10 
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Quote:
It's only your power of imagination that sees America more of a police state than any European country, let alone Communist China or Putin's Russia. Obvious common sense dictates that police departments in America do what they're mandated to do - protecting the security of the population, enforcing the existing laws, and prosecuting the violator of those laws. If a guy experiences discomfort around the police, I suspect that he has individual reasons for that. And if that's the case, it doesn't put him in a positive light at all.

It's important to distinguish political freedom and personal freedom. America is good for political freedom but bad for personal freedom. Russia is certainly better than America for personal freedom even if political freedom is not good.

Read this:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article27414.htm
http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/19-crazy-things-that-school-children-are-being-arrested-for-in-america
And watch this:



This is the tip of the tip of the iceberg. These things are the norm in America.

Police in America are the greatest danger to the public, a lot more than terrorists and even more than criminals.

Do you think that police in Putin's Russia would arrest, handcuff and break the arm of a teenage girl for dropping cake on the floor?
http://infowars.net/articles/september2007/280907Cake.htm

Or handcuff and arrest a child for burping in class (who gets thrown in jail and slammed with a permanent criminal record)?
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2011/12/student-arrested-for-burping-during-class/

Does a 20-year-old adult in Putin's Russia get arrested, handcuffed, put in jail, slammed with a permanent criminal record, and lose their driver's license for the "offense" of drinking alcohol as a 20-year-old?

Yes, America is a highly repressive police state that is actually worse than many second- and third- world dictatorships.


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PostPosted: 29 Feb 2012, 00:10 
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oncebitten55 wrote:
You are mistaken about me, if you think me anti-Jewish, anti-Semite or anti-Israeli, so let's get that non-issue out of the way right now, New-Yorker.


Sorry, oncebitten55, for referring to your username by mistake. It was actually canamoeba whom I quoted. He does seem to have issues with Israel.

oncebitten55 wrote:
The side of freedom from tyranny and oppression, of course. Read my sig line. The Constitution and the Bill of Rights
ARE the ultimate laws of the land. If anyone passes laws that do not meet the definitions those basic tenants, or
they unduly arrested or killed by someone using the "color of law", _they_ are criminals by definition and need to be arrested and imprisoned for failure to uphold the oath of office that they swore to do, under the Constitution.


Those guys got to be tried and prosecuted by the courts, not by disorderly volunteers. You see, a civil war can only unfold if there are many enough people on both sides of the political spectrum who are willing to physically fight for their respected causes. Normal members of the society (and I believe most members are normal) don't want any war. It's you who seem to be one of those who look forward to it. If you really have personally encountered unwarranted police violence, did you ever try to sue the police? Probably not, because you sound like you don't respect the laws of the country; instead, all you want is absolute liberty, and you're looking forward to wage a war against the establishment for that liberty.
People outside of large cities may feel like you do, but don't forget that more American live in urban areas than outside of them. You claim that I'm out of touch with people from outside of urban areas, and I really am. But aren't you, too, out of touch with the majority of American who live in (or near) cities? And this majority doesn't feel like being in a police state, and they have no reason to wage any war. Perhaps it's the handful of exurbanites who exaggerate the issue.

canamoeba wrote:
It's important to distinguish political freedom and personal freedom. America is good for political freedom but bad for personal freedom. Russia is certainly better than America for personal freedom even if political freedom is not good.


I feel much more personal freedom in America than in Russia (or any of its formerly Soviet satellites). At least when it comes to personal religious freedom, like publicly wearing a yarmulka, you won't convince me that Russia offers more freedom than America. Don't tell me that it's legal there; I know that already. But I also know that the chances of getting beaten up for that are more in Russia than in America (although anything can happen anywhere). Anyway, how long ago have you been to Russia if you know so much about freedom there? Also, canamoeba, how often do you visit the U.S. that you find it so different from Canada in terms of personal freedom? Or is Canada the same as the U.S.?

canamoeba wrote:
This is the tip of the tip of the iceberg. These things are the norm in America.


Of course, you wouldn't show similar clips about Russia, but I'm sure they can be found easily. And Belarus (where I originally come from) has it even more now.

canamoeba wrote:
Do you think that police in Putin's Russia would arrest, handcuff and break the arm of a teenage girl for dropping cake on the floor?
...
Do you think that police in Putin's Russia would arrest, handcuff and break the arm of a teenage girl for dropping cake on the floor?


Absolutely. But they would be less likely to get prosecuted than their American counterparts.

But I'm not sure the videos reflect objective reality rather than the videtaper's rendering of what was happening.

canamoeba wrote:
Does a 20-year-old adult in Putin's Russia get arrested, handcuffed, put in jail, slammed with a permanent criminal record, and lose their driver's license for the "offense" of drinking alcohol as a 20-year-old?


Yes! And I would not necessarily condemn that. Because road safety comes first.

canamoeba wrote:
Yes, America is a highly repressive police state that is actually worse than many second- and third- world dictatorships.


Have you ever lived in America that you know it so well?


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PostPosted: 29 Feb 2012, 01:13 
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Of course, you wouldn't show similar clips about Russia, but I'm sure they can be found easily. And Belarus (where I originally come from) has it even more now.

I know about Belarus, it's a dictatorship, and people have gotten beaten up for opposing the government. In Russia too... but in America people don't get beaten for saying "Obama sucks", they get beaten for insanely petty and trivial actions that have nothing to do with politics.

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Absolutely. But they would be less likely to get prosecuted than their American counterparts.

Sure, there's a good chance they would do so if such a girl said "Putin sucks" or distributed anti-Putin leaflets in her school. But just for accidentally dropping a piece of cake on the floor and not picking up the small bits? I don't think so, unless there were political motivations involved.

And American cops barely ever get prosecuted either, even when they kill an innocent person.

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Yes! And I would not necessarily condemn that. Because road safety comes first

I said DRINKING, not DRINKING + DRIVING. The 21-year-old drinking age has nothing to do with drunk driving. Under-21s are not more likely to drive after drinking than over-21s. Hey... even GWB got arrested for DWI once, and he was well over 21.

If allowing 18-year-olds to drink would be so disastrous, how come the rest of the non-Islamic (and even many moderate Muslim countries) world allows it and the sky doesn't fall? Even your beloved Israel has a drinking age of 18! (For the record, drinking age in Russia is 18, with zero tolerance when driving. This is sane policy, not age 21 with 0.08 allowed when driving.)

As a devout Jew, if you had children, how would you like it if you weren't allowed to celebrate Kiddush with them under therat of a felony charge? In New Mexico, it's a FELONY to give alcohol to someone under 21, but only a MISDEMEANOR to drive drunk, even on the third offense.

Quote:
Have you ever lived in America that you know it so well?

I have only spent time as a tourist in Vermont and New Hampshire, and these aren't exactly the worst states. I did not have encounters with the police, thank God. But there was something that highlighed the totalitarianism of America: that occured when my mother wanted to drink beer in a public park in New Hampshire, and I had to convince her to not do it. In Canada, while illegal, this would only have resulted in a warning and confiscation of the alcohol, or at worst, a fine. In America, she'd have been handcuffed, arrested, brought to jail and then to court, and would have received a criminal record which would have resulted in deportation and being barred from re-entering for many years.

Is America really better off for employing such extreme punishments for such insanely trivial acts?

Even without having lived in America, I can read about what really occurs down there, and compare with the situation at home.


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canamoeba wrote:
I did not have encounters with the police, thank God. But there was something that highlighed the totalitarianism of America: that occured when my mother wanted to drink beer in a public park in New Hampshire, and I had to convince her to not do it. In Canada, while illegal, this would only have resulted in a warning and confiscation of the alcohol, or at worst, a fine. In America, she'd have been handcuffed, arrested, brought to jail and then to court, and would have received a criminal record which would have resulted in deportation and being barred from re-entering for many years.


In most parts of America, if you're over 21 you get a ticket and they run a check to see if you have any warrants. Yay facts.


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canamoeba wrote:
And American cops barely ever get prosecuted either, even when they kill an innocent person.


The Sean Bell case that occured in NYC:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703977004575393823233738384.html

Nope, not one of these cops had to do any time in prison, but New-Yorker thinks you can sue the police?

Sure, you can sue, but justice will not be done until these men are behind bars for years and years.

Instead they are still alowed to continue to be police officers, or to "retire early", as is often the case.

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PostPosted: 29 Feb 2012, 06:34 
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canamoeba wrote:
New-Yorker wrote:
Absolutely. But they would be less likely to get prosecuted than their American counterparts.

Sure, there's a good chance they would do so if such a girl said "Putin sucks" or distributed anti-Putin leaflets in her school. But just for accidentally dropping a piece of cake on the floor and not picking up the small bits? I don't think so, unless there were political motivations involved.

And American cops barely ever get prosecuted either, even when they kill an innocent person.


Other than on these questionable videos, I haven't encountered any of these in America either. As for the cops themselves (which is what I meant by 'they'), yes, in America they are more likely to at least suffer professionally. And if their action was really severe, they're much likely to be held criminally responsible in America than they are in Russia.

canamoeba wrote:
I said DRINKING, not DRINKING + DRIVING. The 21-year-old drinking age has nothing to do with drunk driving. Under-21s are not more likely to drive after drinking than over-21s. Hey... even GWB got arrested for DWI once, and he was well over 21.


If the jury deterines that the guy is innocent, he'll get cleared of his charges. Meanwhile it's a great lesson for him and others to be respectful to the law even if it seems trivial.

canamoeba wrote:
As a devout Jew, if you had children, how would you like it if you weren't allowed to celebrate Kiddush with them under therat of a felony charge?


The amount of alcohol consumed for kiddush is usually too minuscule to cause any trouble, even to a kid. And cops are extremely unlikely to purposely visit house after house in Jewish-populated areas just to prosecute the heads of families. If that happened, it would be too easy to accuse them of anti-Semitic bias. If, however, this law was enforced so severely as to have the cops randomly (and non-disciminately) visitng houses in the entire NM just to make sure that kids and alcohol are not sharing the same house, there would be a very simple way out of this situation: drink grapejuice for kiddush.

canamoeba wrote:
In New Mexico, it's a FELONY to give alcohol to someone under 21, but only a MISDEMEANOR to drive drunk, even on the third offense.


That's ridiculous; but it doesn't mean there are no ridiculous laws in other countries.

canamoeba wrote:
In Canada, while illegal, this would only have resulted in a warning and confiscation of the alcohol, or at worst, a fine. In America, she'd have been handcuffed, arrested, brought to jail and then to court, and would have received a criminal record which would have resulted in deportation and being barred from re-entering for many years. Is America really better off for employing such extreme punishments for such insanely trivial acts?


And how do you know whether it's true or not? It never happened to you or your mother. Did it happen to someone you know (rather than to quesionable people on a questionable video)?

canamoeba wrote:
Even without having lived in America, I can read about what really occurs down there,


... from guys like oncebitten55, or Winston Wu, or anybody else who has made anti-American propaganda his hobby or even career.

oncebitten55 wrote:
Sure, you can sue, but justice will not be done until these men are behind bars for years and years.

Instead they are still alowed to continue to be police officers, or to "retire early", as is often the case.


What if it's proven that they only killed the innocent person by accident while following the protocol? Doesn't that ever happen elswhere in the world?

NYC had a series of similar murders of the innocent by the police during the Giuliani era. One of them - in 1999 - hit close to home when the cops killed a Jewish guy who was mentally retarded - by shooting him with 12 bullets because they felt he's threatening them with a hammer. While I strongly condemn these murders, there's nothing to generalize. Giuliani was known for his war on crime, which, unfortunately, was not without "war crimes". In the longer run, however, the city became much safer, and I feel good enough walking down the street in a neighborhood that once used to have a very bad reputation. Perhaps a 'police state' scenario has its bright side: a reduction in crime. What do you think is better - a police officer abusing his power, or a criminal abusing his personal liberty?


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