So I had recently come to the conclusion that pretty much all of my interactions and dates with girls have gone sour due to my neediness. I was so hung up on what they thought about me that not only was I unable to express myself for fear of them not liking it, my constant negative thoughts about how things would end up pretty much became a self-fulfilling prophecy.

But how to combat such feelings? Everybody wants somebody. But it seems like the key to the search is to express yourself honestly. Not only your dreams and passions, but your sexual feelings, as well. Simply touching or going for the kiss is the way to show romantic feelings. And don't give me that "I'm naturally shy, so I'm not being myself if I go for it!" crap. Do you want to have sex with her? If yes, then you're hiding your true feelings by not going for it (and yes, risking getting rejected). If no, then sit down and shut up.

However, you can't be doing it just because you think it'll "work" on her. Take it from me, you can be doing what you think is the exact same thing that "worked" before. But if you're only doing it to get a desired reaction from her, you're dead in the water. And you also have to keep in mind that it won't "work" on every girl!

What are some ways that you can come up with to combat neediness?

People need to hide their inner desires in order for socity to run smoothly. If I always expressed myself honestly, I'd be getting into fist fights and arguments constantly, stealing shit, hitting on married women, having sex in the street, etc. No. It's necessary for people to suppress their inner desires. In fact, if being shy and suppressing your desires is a strong personality trait, that IS who you are. It's what you've learned and become. When you have kids, the first act of discipline you enforce, is basically teaching them to suppress their inner desires. You're teaching them to live in a society, not act like a retarded animal.

Actually, why should someone combat neediness? If neediness and being clingy are true desires that someone has, why suppress them? That's not expressing yourself honestly, if you need to fight back an aspect of your personality. Why are you telling people in one breath, to "express themselves honestly" right after telling them to "combat such feelings"? Do you realise how hypocritical that is? You're telling them to combat, and fight back one aspect of themselves (clinginess), yet to be honest, and forthcoming about another (sexuality). Why would you be telling them to do this? Could it possibly be to get a better reaction out of females, maybe? But no.... that's a bad thing!



If we're not supposed to do something that we think will "work" on the chick.... why are we suppressing our natural clinginess/neediness then? The only reason I could think to suppress neediness is to appeal to chicks who don't like it.

You have a lot of explaining to do here, because this is possibly one of the most hypocritical posts I've seen since Mesian left the forum.

He isn't saying you should change who you are. You should change those incidental aspects of yourself that prevent you from getting laid (shyness / neediness), while preserving and revealing the "core" of yourself.

If the core of you is shyness / neediness -- if these are the essential features that define you -- then you're fucked, and move along to the next thread.

Please note: Tenda Lucas is addressing this toward love-shys. Incels need not bother to dredge up irrelevant arguments about looks, the hypergamy of women, etc.

Are you some kind of new age hippy all of a sudden? Define this "core", because it sounds like some kind of vague blanket term to me.



Is this what you were saying tenda? Or was it this:



Now I'm confused about the extent to which you're supposed to suppress aspects of yourself, which aspects to suppress, to what end, and for what purpose? That's even after trying to define your "core", whatever that is.

Every little change you make is a change to "who you are" because who you are, is a combination of many smaller things.

Sorry, I can't state it any more clearly. Exit thread.

That's right, get the fuck out unless you have something useful to say. The more general you guys try to be about this, the more I'm going to ask for specifics that you will likely not be able to provide, because the original post wasn't very well thought out, and neither was your response to me.



Umm... people's personalities are made from a sum of "incidental aspects". So that is changing "who you are". Also, if you're changing these aspects of yourself just to get laid, then you are going against Tenda when he said not do to something "because you think it will work on her".

Run down of this thread:

- Don't be needy. Combat this tendency.
- Don't hide your true feelings.

Two opposite pieces of advice right there.

- Don't do things because you think they will "work on her".

Then why are we combating neediness if not to appeal to women? If we feel needy, why should we hide it? Moreover, how exactly does being honest combat neediness? You say the key to combating neediness is to express yourself honestly, well what if you're honestly needy?

Ok.



You know, predicting that something is going to turn out bad isn't always a "self fulfilling prophecy". Sometimes your brain just reaches logical conclusions based on the information it has. You can't call that a self fulfilling prophecy just because you knew it was going to happen, lol.



Ok, so we're combating feelings. I assume for the purpose of getting women.



Is this really the key? So whether or not you can find a chick that is attracted to you is just a small factor I suppose. Nothing big. Expressing yourself honestly, that's what will do the trick.



But wait, I thought we were combating feelings? Now we're expressing them? Ok, so it's cool to talk about having kids and getting married on a first date, or what? What if you feel more strongly for the woman, in a shorter amount of time, than she does for you? Should you declare your love for her the moment you feel it? Even if that's shortly after you first met? The premature "I love you" - the "key" is expressing yourself honestly I suppose. That's the "key".

Anyways, I will contribute to the thread, because I do feel that combating neediness is a necessary way to keep women from being turned off by you. The only difference is, I'm actually being honest and straight up, because make no mistake, the purpose of combating neediness is to appeal to women.

The best way to combat neediness, IMO, is to make yourself as attractive as possible, to as many women as possible. The reason for using this method is because the greater number of women who want you, the less you need any one specific woman. If you're ugly to most women, and are only able to attract women rarely, you're more heavily dependent on that one rare woman to provide you with sex/affection needs, and as a result, you're more needy. If you're attractive to a larger number of women, you won't be as needy for one single woman. You will have others to choose from if this one dumps you. You don't have to worry about going on a long dry spell, and as a result, you won't be as needy with the current chick.

If someone doesn't want to do something for personal moral reasons, such as the desire to keep society intact, then they're not suppressing their desires by not stealing, acting like an animal, etc. But if they actually want to have sex with women and are suppressing themselves to the point that makes it impossible, then that's not productive.

It is not hypocritical to tell people to combat feelings that prevent them from expressing themselves. If you're so crippled by fear and anxiety of what others think, how can you possibly express yourself? You can't. You'll censor yourself all the time to avoid offending others. And yeah, take it from me that using PUA lines and tactics that are supposed to work are mostly futile unless they're an actual expression of your personality.

I never said you shouldn't do things to appeal to women. But you shouldn't pander and worry about how to please a particular woman by hiding yourself or being too afraid to go for what you want. Of course there has to be mutual attraction, that's why you improve yourself and honestly express interest in every woman you find appealing until you find that mutual attraction. And you don't worry about scaring off any particular woman.

Ok, so like I asked before, should you express your neediness if you're honestly needy?

Like I said before, if you're expressing neediness, you're not expressing yourself. You're only doing what you think will please others around you. If you're only saying that you love a girl or that you want to marry her because you want her to stick with you, then you're doing it wrong. If you really love or want to marry her, then sure, go nuts. It's obviously not guaranteed to work. But if you're not doing it to get her to stick with you, then you won't be shattered if she bolts.

You don't seem to know what neediness is. It is completely possible to express neediness while expressing yourself, not for the sake of pleasing others around you.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/neediness
need·y (nd)
adj. need·i·er, need·i·est
1. Being in need; impoverished. See Synonyms at poor.
2. Wanting or needing affection, attention, or reassurance, especially to an excessive degree

See? That's what neediness is. If you feel this way, and express it, you're expressing neediness, expressing yourself, and not necessarily doing it to please anyone.

I agree that expressing it to please someone isn't a good idea, but disagree that expressing it in general is not expressing yourself. However, you are going to have to please the woman to a degree, in order for her to stay with you.

I thought this thread was supposed to be about getting over neediness. How does being honest with someone change neediness?

Also, if you truly love the chick and want to marry her, asking her to marry you is an attempt to get her to stay with you. That's essentially what marriage is. Of course you'll still be crushed if she leaves.... you love her.

Neediness, in my experience, is not the result of an expressed emotion. It is the result of holding things back, and trying too hard. It's driven by fear, fueled by desire, and reinforced by jealousy. You can "need" someone without suffocating them. When you try to alter situations in your favor, or don't take their feelings into account it starts to cause problems. When you need constant reassurance from them that you are good enough. That is neediness.


Perhaps you should look into that aspect of yourself then. As Ernest Hemingway said, "What is moral is what you feel good after, and what is immoral is what you feel bad after." The thing keeping me from going on a crime spree is not the fear of jail and punishment.
And don't use idiot logic either. It's not all or nothing here, have a bit of common sense. This isn't a thread about human nature, culture, societal interactions, nature/nurture. It's about expressing your emotions in day to day activities, conversations, specifically with women.

For the most part, suppressing your emotions and feelings causes quite a lot of trouble. Being shy is not a personality it is a defense of personality. A wall trying to protect ego from harm. Being introverted is a personality, being shy is a reaction to your environment. A response to fear. When you're at your most comfortable with friends or family, the shy part of you dissolves away, the introverted part does not.

Nope. Look at the definition of the word that I've posted above. That is neediness. Basically it's a state of being in need. Emotionally, or physically. Your definition is irrelevant. Sure, it CAN be the result of holding things back or trying to hard, but it's not NECESSARILY the result of holding things back, or trying to hard.



I'm not saying it's all or nothing, I'm saying repression of aspects of your personality is necessary for society to function properly. That's a fact. I'm not saying you have to repress all, or none of it.



I agree it can cause trouble. It also prevents trouble.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality

"Personality is the particular combination of emotional, attitudinal, and behavioral response patterns of an individual"

Being shy is a personality trait, not an entire personality. Personality is an all encompassing term. It involves all aspects of emotional and behavioural response, including the desire to protect ego. That means that according to the defintion of the term "personality", shyness is a valid personality trait. I'm sorry to nitpick dude, but you have to use your language correctly, if you're going to attempt to call me out.



Introversion is another personality trait, along with shyness. I agree that shyness dissolves when you're comfortable, what's your point? Or was that it?

(Edit): Looking above, I shouldn't have used the word "Nope." You did correctly point out an example of neediness. The problem is you failed to encompass the term properly. You just pointed out one example, amoung many possible examples, of neediness.

If you are expressing something merely out of a need to get attention and affection from someone, it is impossible to avoid doing it for the sole reason of appealing to their sensibilities. You're doing it only for the reactions of this other person and it's therefore not an honest expression of yourself. It is impossible to be yourself when you are only acting in a way to fit other people's sensibilities. You are being who you believe they want you to be, not yourself. If you are marrying someone out of your love for them, then that's an honest expression of yourself and you'll be willing to accept it whether she takes it or leaves it. But if you're only doing it because you think she'll bow to social pressures and stick with you, then you're only doing it to try to get something from her, not because you love her.