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PostPosted: 19 Jul 2014, 00:47 
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One of the big problems I've always had with the fairer sex is never knowing for sure what constitutes an indication of attraction/interest, what is a sign of genuine but platonic friendliness, and what is faked friendliness meant to uphold one's own image as a nice person.

Generally, I know when I'm picking up something, but I can't separate the signal from the noise.

If you're LS, you're going to generally err in your judgement towards thinking of any positive interest as being in the latter two categories. It's simply safer in the short term to judge that way; after all, misinterpreting a purely platonic smile of friendliness as an invitation to flirtation can result in getting labeled with the scarlet "C" for 'creepy' if you're lucky, or getting served with a sexual harassment lawsuit if you're unlucky.

So here's what I want to do:
Guys: Could you give a scenario where you encountered someone you found attractive enough to want to approach, or really wish would approach you?
Ladies (LS or normal): If you were the lady of interest in his scenario, how would you let the guy in the scenario know you were interested in him, in a romantic sense?


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PostPosted: 19 Jul 2014, 01:19 
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the point of female IOIs is to be ambiguous. You're not supposed to know what they are for sure. You're supposed to just take any hint then aggressively pursue it. If the girl was genuinely implying interest at the start, but then doesn't like you somewhere further down the line, she can then claim she was never interested in the first place.

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PostPosted: 19 Jul 2014, 05:28 
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UnlikelyDaydreamer wrote:
getting served with a sexual harassment lawsuit if you're unlucky.


Sexual harassment lawsuits are for businesses, places of employment. A man cannot be charged with sexual harassment just because he flirts with a random women he finds attractive.


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PostPosted: 19 Jul 2014, 06:34 
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UnlikelyDaydreamer wrote:
One of the big problems I've always had with the fairer sex is never knowing for sure what constitutes an indication of attraction/interest, what is a sign of genuine but platonic friendliness, and what is faked friendliness meant to uphold one's own image as a nice person.

Generally, I know when I'm picking up something, but I can't separate the signal from the noise.

If you're LS, you're going to generally err in your judgement towards thinking of any positive interest as being in the latter two categories. It's simply safer in the short term to judge that way; after all, misinterpreting a purely platonic smile of friendliness as an invitation to flirtation can result in getting labeled with the scarlet "C" for 'creepy' if you're lucky, or getting served with a sexual harassment lawsuit if you're unlucky.

So here's what I want to do:
Guys: Could you give a scenario where you encountered someone you found attractive enough to want to approach, or really wish would approach you?
Ladies (LS or normal): If you were the lady of interest in his scenario, how would you let the guy in the scenario know you were interested in him, in a romantic sense?


If I was interested in a man romantically, I'd get personal with him by asking him for his name, about his hobbies, what job he does for a living, what he studied in university, political views, etc., and compliment on him on how he looks or what he's wearing.

On the contrary.... if I just wanted to be friendly or show no interest, then I'd keep things professional and not ask him for any personal details.

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PostPosted: 19 Jul 2014, 08:44 
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There are lots of videos on the non verbal IOIs

Sadly some of them are ambigious like touching of the arms. Others not so much. I'd go there.

As for things like her showing an interest in you and finding reasons to hang out with you. again amibigious. I've been known to ask personal details and vice versa but I can assure you that there isn't any fuck desire going on. Asking someone for their name, hobbies, jobs etc is not flirting. The absence of it is a bad sign but it is just how normal people communicate with each other, its being friendly.

Although to use a personal example. My unicorn story which sadly went nowhere because of geography.

I was at a conference about public policy which was geared towards students. I asked before hand, no dress code so I jeans and tshirted it as I normally do. Chick started talking to me, mentioned that I was underdressed and didn't seem to care, comfortable in my own skin [which I am, sadly something that took decades for anyone to notice and grove on]. I forget all the details.
Later on we were in the same discussion group. I laid on my brilliance and I found out later in friend mode that we had anoying similar political views so no doubt she was digging that also.
I noticed her doing the classic fidgeting, playing with hair and the looking over and away thing when I looked at her. Plausable denyability, I suppose but pretty unabigious signals that it wasn't friend interest.

after that I suggested we hung and and did so before she had to drive back home. Stayed in touch via email for a few years, came over twice more in friend zone mode end of story.

I've seen it happen one other time but I was not in a position to act on it. Both times they were in my league and many here would probably have considered not worthy.

But yeah, thinking everyone who asks your name and where you work wants to fuck you, or thinking that this counts in anyway as an indicator of romantic interest is just setting someone up for a massive and repeated face plant.


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PostPosted: 19 Jul 2014, 08:48 
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Forlorn Hope wrote:
There are lots of videos on the non verbal IOIs

Sadly some of them are ambigious like touching of the arms. Others not so much. I'd go there.

As for things like her showing an interest in you and finding reasons to hang out with you. again amibigious. I've been known to ask personal details and vice versa but I can assure you that there isn't any fuck desire going on. Asking someone for their name, hobbies, jobs etc is not flirting. The absence of it is a bad sign but it is just how normal people communicate with each other, its being friendly.

I'm ugly as sin and I've had teenage girls comment on some aspect of my apperence in a positive way or my humour. Attractive teenage girls with age approapate boyfriends. I am pretty sure they were not hitting on me.

Although to use a personal example. My unicorn story which sadly went nowhere because of geography.

I was at a conference about public policy which was geared towards students. I asked before hand, no dress code so I jeans and tshirted it as I normally do. Chick started talking to me, mentioned that I was underdressed and didn't seem to care, comfortable in my own skin [which I am, sadly something that took decades for anyone to notice and grove on]. I forget all the details.
Later on we were in the same discussion group. I laid on my brilliance and I found out later in friend mode that we had anoying similar political views so no doubt she was digging that also.
I noticed her doing the classic fidgeting, playing with hair and the looking over and away thing when I looked at her. Plausable denyability, I suppose but pretty unabigious signals that it wasn't friend interest. If I were in that situation again and I made a move and she tried to deny things, I wouldn't buy it, I'd assume something changed because it was just so clear.

after that I suggested we hung and and did so before she had to drive back home. Stayed in touch via email for a few years, came over twice more in friend zone mode end of story. She was however a very unusal person for whom the normal rules did not apply. Your milage will vary.

I've seen it happen one other time but I was not in a position to act on it. Both times they were in my league and many here would probably have considered not worthy.

But yeah, thinking everyone who asks your name and where you work wants to fuck you, or thinking that this counts in anyway as an indicator of romantic interest is just setting someone up for a massive and repeated face plant.


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PostPosted: 21 Jul 2014, 21:43 
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I think often judging interest isn't easy partly as there's different levels of interest and people don't always know if they're interested, initially. For me personally, I can give off *some* interest so to speak as I really like someone overall in a friendship capacity. This means chatting and maybe meeting and just enjoying the company of a person as a friend. Other times when I was interested beyond a friend I would flirt and joke around more. It's hard to define and I've had the equal dilemma over guys being a woman. It's not clear cut, people can be interested on a first date and no longer a second, a 5th, a 50th or after marriage.

A general rule of thumb to go by though when arranging dates, if you ask someone and they make an excuse, move on. If you ask and they have a reason not to but show signs of planning another day instead then there's potential.


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PostPosted: 23 Jul 2014, 04:58 
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Apologies for the delay in replies, y'all. I wanted to wait and see what the active board members' consensus is.

And that consensus is..

"There is no relatively consistent rule seperating signs of platonic vs more-than-platonic interest. WTF, 'Daydreamer, did you think it was supposed to be *easy*?"

Got it.

Oh, and Forlorn Hope basically told me to "RTFM, n00b."

I probably should hit the search engines and post links to videos of IOI examples that seem the most informative. Pester me on this if I don't deliver.

Additionally, I suppose I should've clarified that the reason for my inquiry was based on primarily workplace contexts. That would've spared me from having to read another Gumbee post. (Just kidding Gumbee, you're still cool. :) )

I have a pair of questions for the 2 ladies who contributed replies, though:

T&E, would you consider yourself more passive or bolder than the norm for women in your community, your workplace, or wherever you hang out?

To UKShyGirl:

I think the issue of immediate attraction vs. your level of interest in that one person you may have known awhile is an interesting one. Assume for example that you're trying to attract the romantic interest of someone you've talked to on and off on innocuous topics for a period of several days or weeks,but never in a dating context.

How would you go about trying to maneuver him into asking you out for a first date without sticking your neck out, asking him directly, and facing the pain of rejection?


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PostPosted: 23 Jul 2014, 05:44 
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UnlikelyDaydreamer wrote:

Oh, and Forlorn Hope basically told me to "RTFM, n00b."


Not with that attitude though. However reading the manual is a pretty good idea

However I am one of those guys who always reads the guides to a game before playing.


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PostPosted: 23 Jul 2014, 15:07 
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The only reliable indicator of interest is if the girl starts acting in a jealous manner when you're with another woman, and only acts this way towards you, not towards other people. However, it doesn't indicate anything else except interest. The rest are all too vague to tell if it's true or just mixed signals.

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PostPosted: 23 Jul 2014, 17:38 
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UnlikelyDaydreamer wrote:
T&E, would you consider yourself more passive or bolder than the norm for women in your community, your workplace, or wherever you hang out?


A little bit of both. Sometimes a guy would ask me out before I could even get a chance to ask him. Either way works for me. If I see a guy I want so bad, I should go for it. I really don't care about rejection since that's just a normal part of life.

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PostPosted: 25 Jul 2014, 22:57 
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OK folks, here's a few IOI videos that I found interesting enough to bookmark. Please feel free to reply with your own.
I've placed the youtube embeds behind spoilers so that they don't all load at once and slow down browsing for those posters using less powerful computers.

Spoiler: show


Spoiler: show


Spoiler: show


Spoiler: show


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PostPosted: 25 Jul 2014, 23:03 
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...and now a 2nd set from my list of bookmarks:

Spoiler: show


Spoiler: show


Spoiler: show


Spoiler: show


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PostPosted: 25 Jul 2014, 23:15 
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One problem is that there are so many little signs that you could drive yourself into stalling if you tried to look for them all. It works well if you can pick them up naturally but if you are looking for them especially while trying to carry on a conversation I could see it as distracting.

Also in some cases the same thing can mean different things.
A smile can mean
1: Damn that is a hot bit of ass I want him in me.
2: Hey he is checking me out, not interested but it makes me feel good.
3: Maybe if I smile I won't end up hanging from a meat hook in his basement, he is making me uncomfortable.


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PostPosted: 25 Jul 2014, 23:20 
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Teach and Educate wrote:
UnlikelyDaydreamer wrote:
T&E, would you consider yourself more passive or bolder than the norm for women in your community, your workplace, or wherever you hang out?


A little bit of both. Sometimes a guy would ask me out before I could even get a chance to ask him. Either way works for me. If I see a guy I want so bad, I should go for it. I really don't care about rejection since that's just a normal part of life.


To put it diplomatically T&E, some of us here are a bit more sensitive to rejection than others.. especially if they've had their self-esteem beaten down by social failures in the past. Telling such a guy to pick himself back up and go once more unto the breach may seem like common sense to you, but he's not going to get why he should face the pain of rejection again if he believes from past experiences that he has a 99.999% certainty of being rejected and hurt again.

In order for him to "man up" (and something makes me think you were thinking that when posting), he needs some way to know that this time, it may be different.. that his chances are better than a 99.999% chance of failure and hurt.

That's one of the reasons I started this thread in the first place.. so that guys might look for certain expressions, body language, etc.. and know that maybe his chances improved from a 99.999% chance of failure to only, perhaps 40%.


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