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PostPosted: 25 Jul 2014, 23:23 
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Forlorn Hope wrote:
One problem is that there are so many little signs that you could drive yourself into stalling if you tried to look for them all. It works well if you can pick them up naturally but if you are looking for them especially while trying to carry on a conversation I could see it as distracting.

Also in some cases the same thing can mean different things.
A smile can mean
1: Damn that is a hot bit of ass I want him in me.
2: Hey he is checking me out, not interested but it makes me feel good.
3: Maybe if I smile I won't end up hanging from a meat hook in his basement, he is making me uncomfortable.


That's a good example of why this is clear as mud to some of us.. and why I seek a little clarity.
So where is that manual, d00d? I'd like to give it a read before playing the game.


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PostPosted: 25 Jul 2014, 23:28 
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UnlikelyDaydreamer wrote:

That's a good example of why this is clear as mud to some of us.. and why I seek a little clarity.
So where is that manual, d00d? I'd like to give it a read before playing the game.



I always RTFM. I am a chronic reader. I was also one of the few people who read up on the course calander at university and knew exactly what I needed to do without asking.


I've read elsewhere that some guy took some girls out and had them try to figure it out and they couldn't do it either. Too ambigious.

There are clear signals but few of us will ever get to see them. I have once in my life and I get out there.

Another issue. Some girls just like to flirt. So that IOI might be for reals or it might be just attention getting.


A stripper once told me that her brother [if I remember right] decided to just give up on IOI and go for it. However if your failure rate is high enough or if you have a history of being a social punching bag and are litterally in the bottom 1.5% of looks than that doesn't seem a good way to go.


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PostPosted: 27 Jul 2014, 22:42 
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UnlikelyDaydreamer wrote:
Teach and Educate wrote:
UnlikelyDaydreamer wrote:
T&E, would you consider yourself more passive or bolder than the norm for women in your community, your workplace, or wherever you hang out?


A little bit of both. Sometimes a guy would ask me out before I could even get a chance to ask him. Either way works for me. If I see a guy I want so bad, I should go for it. I really don't care about rejection since that's just a normal part of life.


To put it diplomatically T&E, some of us here are a bit more sensitive to rejection than others.. especially if they've had their self-esteem beaten down by social failures in the past. Telling such a guy to pick himself back up and go once more unto the breach may seem like common sense to you, but he's not going to get why he should face the pain of rejection again if he believes from past experiences that he has a 99.999% certainty of being rejected and hurt again.

In order for him to "man up" (and something makes me think you were thinking that when posting), he needs some way to know that this time, it may be different.. that his chances are better than a 99.999% chance of failure and hurt.


He should pick up his self-esteem first, before ever trying again. I think also what's causing them to get hurt and discouraged from repeated rejections is not allowing themselves some time to recover.

Quote:
That's one of the reasons I started this thread in the first place.. so that guys might look for certain expressions, body language, etc.. and know that maybe his chances improved from a 99.999% chance of failure to only, perhaps 40%.


That is a wonderful cause, thanks for starting this thread.

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PostPosted: 27 Jul 2014, 22:50 
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Teach and Educate wrote:
He should pick up his self-esteem first.


More useless advice.

Ranks up there with be better socially and have more confidence.


A bit like telling an alcoholic to just stop drinking.


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PostPosted: 27 Jul 2014, 22:58 
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Forlorn Hope wrote:
Teach and Educate wrote:
He should pick up his self-esteem first.


More useless advice.

Ranks up there with be better socially and have more confidence.


A bit like telling an alcoholic to just stop drinking.


What am I supposed to say? Keep his self-esteem down, leading to more failure?

That is worse.

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PostPosted: 02 Aug 2014, 02:50 
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guys t+e is not going to say anything but horseshit, and is probably a man.

i don't know about indicators of interest, but i'm not going to act on them or desperately cling to them. the moment a man obsesses over such things, he's already lost and needlessly debased himself. it helps that i've given up. maybe when a woman will tell me what she wants, then i'd start looking over indicators to check if her interest is legitimate or some kind of joke/scam played on me, but that happens very rarely and never lasts long.

a woman who knows anything about my history has always rejected me, will always reject me, and has no choice but to reject me. that is something that is hard to accept, but it is the way it is now.

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PostPosted: 02 Aug 2014, 03:57 
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Teach and Educate wrote:
Forlorn Hope wrote:
Teach and Educate wrote:
He should pick up his self-esteem first.


More useless advice.

Ranks up there with be better socially and have more confidence.


A bit like telling an alcoholic to just stop drinking.


What am I supposed to say? Keep his self-esteem down, leading to more failure?

That is worse.



So those are the only two options right.

Also you completely misunderstand why your advice is so useless.

Suppose I tell you to just go and make me corned slag and dabber. Except you have no idea how to make it.

But go and make it for me. What should I tell you that you are stupid because you don't know how to make it, you will never learn that way.

You can't just choose to have more self esteem. Actual true self esteem much like confidence comes from some track record of success and achievement. It doesn't come from scoring games fun to fun or telling little billy that they can do anything they want.

However if someone has tried and tried and has gotten nothing but failure telling them they should have more self esteem or confidence [which are related] in this area is just beyond retarded but cruel because you are giving advice that not only can he not act on and in effect setting him for failure but if he goes out there some more with out some sort of change will build up more rejection and further shoot his self esteem down.

In effect your advice is either not actionable or worse leads to the result that you are claiming I want.

Of course you and your troll buddies will not accept this because you are here to troll and nothing else but hopefully others who might not have figured out your trollality will read this and realise they are far from alone in thinking WTF is wrong with you and why they are right. Oh and maybe a mod will see enough and finally act either banning you or me. I don't really care which at this point.


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PostPosted: 02 Aug 2014, 07:56 
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Forlorn Hope wrote:
Teach and Educate wrote:
Forlorn Hope wrote:
Teach and Educate wrote:
He should pick up his self-esteem first.


More useless advice.

Ranks up there with be better socially and have more confidence.


A bit like telling an alcoholic to just stop drinking.


What am I supposed to say? Keep his self-esteem down, leading to more failure?

That is worse.



So those are the only two options right.

Also you completely misunderstand why your advice is so useless.

Suppose I tell you to just go and make me corned slag and dabber. Except you have no idea how to make it.

But go and make it for me. What should I tell you that you are stupid because you don't know how to make it, you will never learn that way.

You can't just choose to have more self esteem. Actual true self esteem much like confidence comes from some track record of success and achievement. It doesn't come from scoring games fun to fun or telling little billy that they can do anything they want.

However if someone has tried and tried and has gotten nothing but failure telling them they should have more self esteem or confidence [which are related] in this area is just beyond retarded but cruel because you are giving advice that not only can he not act on and in effect setting him for failure but if he goes out there some more with out some sort of change will build up more rejection and further shoot his self esteem down.

In effect your advice is either not actionable or worse leads to the result that you are claiming I want.

Of course you and your troll buddies will not accept this because you are here to troll and nothing else but hopefully others who might not have figured out your trollality will read this and realise they are far from alone in thinking WTF is wrong with you and why they are right. Oh and maybe a mod will see enough and finally act either banning you or me. I don't really care which at this point.


OK, keep doing what you're doing. You don't need change, just do nothing. Have fun failing and LOVE it!

I'm sure that's easy enough for you. Happy now? :D

alwayslate wrote:
guys t+e is not going to say anything but horseshit,


But you're supposed to be the giant asshole. :lol:

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Prostitution = not a job, not a choice.

The main men that call women "sluts" and "whores" are usually the ones who couldn't get it.

If you can read this, thank an educator! :D


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PostPosted: 02 Aug 2014, 08:18 
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GumbyGumbee wrote:
UnlikelyDaydreamer wrote:
getting served with a sexual harassment lawsuit if you're unlucky.


Sexual harassment lawsuits are for businesses, places of employment. A man cannot be charged with sexual harassment just because he flirts with a random women he finds attractive.


WRONG! He can be if she has witnesses that will testify to it in a court of law under oath.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6inwzOooXRU

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http://www.padfield.com/1997/goodmen.html -"When Good Men Do Nothing".


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PostPosted: 02 Aug 2014, 08:19 
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Fonduman wrote:
the point of female IOIs is to be ambiguous. You're not supposed to know what they are for sure. You're supposed to just take any hint then aggressively pursue it. If the girl was genuinely implying interest at the start, but then doesn't like you somewhere further down the line, she can then claim she was never interested in the first place.


Its called "Plausible Deniablity". :check:

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"Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men? The Shadow Knows!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6inwzOooXRU

"A Star on Earth; an Angel in Heaven" -Karen Anne Carpenter (1950-1983)
_______________________________________________________________________________________
http://www.padfield.com/1997/goodmen.html -"When Good Men Do Nothing".


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PostPosted: 02 Aug 2014, 15:52 
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Teach and Educate wrote:

OK, keep doing what you're doing. You don't need change, just do nothing. Have fun failing and LOVE it!

I'm sure that's easy enough for you. Happy now? :D


Except that isn't at all the point of what I am saying now is it.

Trolling by strawman arguement 101 I guess.


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PostPosted: 02 Aug 2014, 19:14 
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Forlorn Hope wrote:
Teach and Educate wrote:

OK, keep doing what you're doing. You don't need change, just do nothing. Have fun failing and LOVE it!

I'm sure that's easy enough for you. Happy now? :D


Except that isn't at all the point of what I am saying now is it.

Trolling by strawman arguement 101 I guess.


Either you say it's hopeless or you're fine with failing. Pick your poison.

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The main men that call women "sluts" and "whores" are usually the ones who couldn't get it.

If you can read this, thank an educator! :D


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PostPosted: 02 Aug 2014, 22:04 
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Teach and Educate wrote:

Either you say it's hopeless or you're fine with failing. Pick your poison.



It isn't that anyone here is or isn't hopeless. It is your moronic advice that is hopeless.

You say pick up some self esteem but you don't say how.
You can't just buy it at the corner store. You need a chain of success to obtain self esteem.

Your advice in no way addresses how to obtain that chain of success to a population that has had a record of failure.

Unless your advice on increasing self esteem involves some sort of actionable advice on how to go out there and get different results than every other time we get out there [or almost every other time] than your advice is hopeless. It will actually make things worse.

Your advice is hopeless to even the most curable incel person out there.

Your advice is hopeless because it will actually make things worse not better.



So fuck off troll.


Actually as it is should be obvious to everyone that you are a troll who is trolling by pretending to be borderline arguements from now on until someone knew comes along or until you show some sign of anything more than the most superfical thought my responces to you will be

fuck off troll.

Anyone else reading this can fill in the obvious counter arguments that I could have made.


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PostPosted: 02 Aug 2014, 23:52 
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Forlorn Hope wrote:
Teach and Educate wrote:

Either you say it's hopeless or you're fine with failing. Pick your poison.



It isn't that anyone here is or isn't hopeless. It is your moronic advice that is hopeless.

You say pick up some self esteem but you don't say how.
You can't just buy it at the corner store. You need a chain of success to obtain self esteem.

Your advice in no way addresses how to obtain that chain of success to a population that has had a record of failure.

Unless your advice on increasing self esteem involves some sort of actionable advice on how to go out there and get different results than every other time we get out there [or almost every other time] than your advice is hopeless. It will actually make things worse.

Your advice is hopeless to even the most curable incel person out there.

Your advice is hopeless because it will actually make things worse not better.



So fuck off troll.


Actually as it is should be obvious to everyone that you are a troll who is trolling by pretending to be borderline arguements from now on until someone knew comes along or until you show some sign of anything more than the most superfical thought my responces to you will be

fuck off troll.

Anyone else reading this can fill in the obvious counter arguments that I could have made.


Please refer to the steps listed in the link of the Alpha Male thread. It'll provide you with very useful advice and answer every question you may have on self esteem and being successful with women. Thank you!

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Prostitution = not a job, not a choice.

The main men that call women "sluts" and "whores" are usually the ones who couldn't get it.

If you can read this, thank an educator! :D


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PostPosted: 03 Aug 2014, 03:25 
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Teach and Educate wrote:

Please refer to the steps listed in the link of the Alpha Male thread. It'll provide you with very useful advice and answer every question you may have on self esteem and being successful with women. Thank you!


Funny that. The Alpha Male link provides abosultely no information on cultivating self esteem in a field where you have nothing but failure. Nor does it actually provide any information on being successful other than be successful.


1: Be confident. Again. Explained how it was bullshit advice. Funny how the post actually points out that arrogance will just have the opposite effect. I wonder how confidence without a base of achievement looks like... could it be... arrogance. Well. Isn't that special.

2: Basiclly Confidence restated. More useless bullshit

3: Use humour. I'm funny as fuck. Really. I've had even girls tell me I am the funniest person they know. Yet for the chronically incel it doesn't seem to work. So more bullshit. Also I've seen other incels try to be funny and fail because they arn't. Not everyone has the ability to tell a joke properly.

4: Let your body do the talking. I've seen people try to learn this and fail badly. I have also. Body language is a lot more subtle to learn and people seem to know the difference between real and fake.

5: Fill room with your presence. If people don't like you, giving them more isn't going to get them to like you more

I've seen the list and there is no point going on.

Wow. Thanks. To get chicks, get chicks. To get over being incel don't be incel. That seems useful. Hmm to be a rich investor, be a rich invester. What, you are not following my advice. I guess you want to be poor.

That advice can make a normal person better but an incel person has problems that following such advice will only magnify.
Speaking as an outgoing person and having seen it in others I can attest to that. If you are unlikable that advice will just allow more people to realise they don't like you and get you more unliked by those who already dislike you. Actually I do have Alpha type inclinations. Within the nerds I game with I take a leadership position, in group projects I have no problem getting a group back on track. However if you are socially crippled enough to be incel following such a path will just make you into a social punching bag.
They will call you social disease. They will gang up on you and torment you. You will have teenage girls asking you as a 30+ year old male if you are a virgin hopeing to humuliate you.

Are you trying to push someone into killing themselves. Seriously. Are you.

Also I noticed you posted that link which has nothing to do with self esteem except in the most indirect ways which don't relate to dating after you posted your useless advice not as part of it. To further explain. Ability in some areas don't always carry over into others. There are some very successful people who have pride and confidence in their abilities in certain field who are still solidly incel. Confidence in learning Klingon or knowing the layout of the Enterpise for some odd reason doesn't carry over into dating. Neither do many other hobbies and interests... note the band thread.



If you want to help a solidly non shy incel out. You pretty much need to follow him around with a practiced eye and spot the things he is doing wrong to alienate people. That is if and only if you can actually spot these issues beyond a general unease said person is causing. Assuming the person isn't brutally ugly and has other repellent features beyond social interaction that can't be helped outside of blind unreasonable luck. Even if you can identify those factors, good luck changing them.


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