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 Post subject: A thread on discipline
PostPosted: 05 Sep 2015, 20:02 
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I'm not sure we have one of these. It seems to me that achievement in anything (fitness, financial success, dating, etc) is only possible by resisting your urge to do what feels good in the moment, repeatedly. This is extremely hard though, particularly in a culture that seems to be oriented towards seeking comfort rather than discomfort. How do people here get themselves to do stuff they don't want to do, and how do they make it a habit?

One thing I read recently is that willpower is similar to your muscles in that you only have so much of it you can use before it needs to be rested for the day, but you can build it up. Therefore if you have little willpower, your best bet is to be selective on how you spend it. Instead of picking a big goal and chipping away at it, focus your willpower on creating an environment that will make it easier for you to do whatever is necessary to achieve your goal (ie, remove distractions).

Also for what it's worth I mean the focus to be on self driven will power. Few people want to go to work but the threat of losing their job is enough to make them go anyway and the daily structure makes it a pretty easy habit for most people to develop. What if you didn't have those pressures though? How would you ensure that you lived productively as opposed to sitting in your room jerking off to porn and playing video games?

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PostPosted: 08 Sep 2015, 07:30 
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Mr C. wrote:
I'm not sure we have one of these. It seems to me that achievement in anything (fitness, financial success, dating, etc) is only possible by resisting your urge to do what feels good in the moment, repeatedly. This is extremely hard though, particularly in a culture that seems to be oriented towards seeking comfort rather than discomfort. How do people here get themselves to do stuff they don't want to do, and how do they make it a habit?

In short: meditation, willpower building exercises, and the application of this built-up willpower through meditative focus.

A refresher here is in order:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=20634

Meditative focus can, among many other things, readily be used to compel oneself to push through any discomfort and do something IMMEDIATELY. Subjectively, it feels like smashing through any mental barriers and utterly, absolutely forcing oneself to do something.

One important thing to do that, in the beginning, can help ignite a positive feedback loop and help establish a habit, is hammer home the realization that, in the future, the factors that are preventing you from achieving a task NOW, or that you are appealing to in order to rationalize not doing this task, will be no different in the future (unless you discipline yourself and work towards changing them- but this is precisely what you are avoiding in this case). You will basically be just as lazy, just as averse to discomfort and pain, just as tired, just as unskilled, and just as weak, as you are now. If you give in now, nothing is going to stop you from procrastinating again in the future- thus, you have to break the cycle NOW. DO IT NOW.

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One thing I read recently is that willpower is similar to your muscles in that you only have so much of it you can use before it needs to be rested for the day, but you can build it up. Therefore if you have little willpower, your best bet is to be selective on how you spend it. Instead of picking a big goal and chipping away at it, focus your willpower on creating an environment that will make it easier for you to do whatever is necessary to achieve your goal (ie, remove distractions).

It is very similar to your muscles, and many of the same principles of training apply (solid nutrition, safeguards in the case of failure, overloading and progression, etc.).

This is also a very important point: willpower is not infinite, and so it is important to strategize in order to maximize it, conserve it, and construct environmental safeguards for when your willpower does fail.

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Also for what it's worth I mean the focus to be on self driven will power. Few people want to go to work but the threat of losing their job is enough to make them go anyway and the daily structure makes it a pretty easy habit for most people to develop. What if you didn't have those pressures though? How would you ensure that you lived productively as opposed to sitting in your room jerking off to porn and playing video games?

Here are some exercises:

-Force yourself to do some task with your non-dominant hand. when you instinctively start to switch back to your dominant hand (like you would normally do), stop yourself and continue using your non-dominant hand.

-Fill a glass with water. For anywhere from 1 to 3 minutes, hold it in one hand and stare at the water line in the glass. Set a timer with an audible alarm, on a watch, phone, clock, etc., so you know when time is up. DO NOT look at the time, at any point whatsoever. DO NOT think about how much time you have left. DO NOT twist your arm or lower it at all when it starts to get tired. Hold it steady. Focus on the water line in the glass.

-When you feel an itch, don't scratch it.

-Stand under a cold shower (as cold as it will go- not lukewarm or any of that other "cold" shit) for several minutes. DO NOT look at the time or think about how much time you have left- focus on enduring the cold; follow the timer procedure described above in the water glass exercise.

-Sit in silence for several minutes. Do not pick up your phone, get on the computer, read a book, or do anything else. Resist all urges to do something active. DO NOT look at the time or think about how much time you have left- focus on sitting in total quietude; follow the timer procedure described above in the water glass exercise.

You should have captured the general idea at this point (it must, precisely, be an activity that is uncomfortable to do- just like you can't lose fat and gain muscle without pushing yourself and feeling some pain in the gym; incidentally, weight training is a willpower building exercise, as well, if done right), so you should be able to easily think up many other exercises you can incorporate into your daily routine, but for more ideas and for an effective starter plan, check out this book:

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2230 ... Discipline

Once your willpower is built up, you can then apply it through meditative focus in any given activity. The construction of strategies surrounds this process.


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PostPosted: 08 Sep 2015, 18:57 
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The purpose of regular religious rituals is to serve as exercises in self-discipline. So everyone should join a religion that has good rituals. I also recommend regular physical exercise which not only is good for health by also for self-discipline. And occasional fasting is also healthy and good for self-discipline. The bottom line one should not focusing on making things easy, one should focus on building up self-disciple through exercises just as one builds up strength with physical exercise and intelligence with mental exercise.

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PostPosted: 09 Sep 2015, 20:08 
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Life has taught me that too much discipline is worse than too little.
Learning to shut the fuck up in public is the most important discipline.

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PostPosted: 09 Sep 2015, 21:12 
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Catapault55 wrote:
Life has taught me that too much discipline is worse than too little.
Learning to shut the fuck up in public is the most important discipline.

No wonder you fail.


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PostPosted: 09 Sep 2015, 22:03 
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http://thepiratebay.gd/torrent/6337415/The_Miracle_of_Self-discipline__The__No-Excuses__Way_to_Gett

Pretty good audio book to help with discipline. Willpower is like a finite energy source you tap into, where discipline is more about your habits. It takes no willpower to exercise discipline you've already built up, but it takes willpower to develop the habits you want.

It's mostly about habits in the end. Most habits are developed accidentally, are geared towards comfort, and aren't productive. Thinking consciously about your habits is a good way to start. Try to create new habits for yourself using your willpower. Once doing something productive(like working out each morning, for example) becomes a habit, it doesn't take willpower to do.

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PostPosted: 09 Sep 2015, 22:05 
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Lykos sounds mad. LOL

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PostPosted: 10 Sep 2015, 00:56 
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Catapault55 wrote:
Life has taught me that too much discipline is worse than too little.
Learning to shut the fuck up in public is the most important discipline.


Another important discipline is not posting every time you feel like it on an internet message board. :roll:

The rest of the posts in this thread are excellent and useful.

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PostPosted: 10 Sep 2015, 02:36 
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PostPosted: 12 Sep 2015, 02:23 
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I had a doctor fuck up my health by prescribing me the wrong medicine. I was left fat (my waist was 37 inches), anemic and probably infertile, and her medication almost killed me. I ended up in the emergency room five different times from complications related to her being incompetent. My hair was falling out, I doubled in size, the pigmentation in my skin changed and I was extremely weak and fatigued. Prior to this I had been extremely active, I played rugby, I ran a marathon at 2:43:22, I did all manner of martial arts, and I was the best at dodgeball. All of a sudden, when I would try to run a mile in PE my knees would give out and I'd eat shit, or be embarrassingly vomiting on the sidelines. It fucking sucked. About a year ago I found a new doctor, we went through my paperwork and found Doctor Frankenstein's numerous fuck-ups. Nowadays, I go to the gym everyday for 3 hours: 2 hours of cardio, 1 hour of machine work. Now that school is starting up again I am going to have to cut down. My diet is equally insane, but I have my doctors supervision. I went to the gym today after having a thyroid biopsy and it sucked, but I just forced it. I guess the reason I do all of this is because whenever I conjure up a dark moment: I was running a mile in PE, I got very sick, but was determined to finish. I keeled over and vomited and it was disgusting, everyone passed me and went on to finish the mile. When they finished they were allowed to go back inside, I had to finish those two laps outside alone, while everyone inside looked out the window at me. My PE teacher looked at me in disapproval. It took me 12:42 to run that mile. I spent the rest of the day beyond upset with myself. I guess right now getting in shape is motivated in part because of the sheer hatred I feel, and the raw anger in my body, that I can't contain any other way. If I didn't have that intense feeling of hatred I doubt I would be as motivated to change. If the stuff never happened to me, I wouldn't be so hateful because there would be no reason to hate anyone. To live productively, I try to remember that I know people who are wasting their lives away, and that in 2 to 3 months I'll hit my goal weight and I'll be "perfect" again.

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PostPosted: 12 Sep 2015, 02:32 
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Chibithulhu wrote:
I had a doctor fuck up my health by prescribing me the wrong medicine. I was left fat (my waist was 37 inches), anemic and probably infertile, and her medication almost killed me. I ended up in the emergency room five different times from complications related to her being incompetent. My hair was falling out, I doubled in size, the pigmentation in my skin changed and I was extremely weak and fatigued. Prior to this I had been extremely active, I played rugby, I ran a marathon at 2:43:22, I did all manner of martial arts, and I was the best at dodgeball. All of a sudden, when I would try to run a mile in PE my knees would give out and I'd eat shit, or be embarrassingly vomiting on the sidelines. It fucking sucked. About a year ago I found a new doctor, we went through my paperwork and found Doctor Frankenstein's numerous fuck-ups. Nowadays, I go to the gym everyday for 3 hours: 2 hours of cardio, 1 hour of machine work. Now that school is starting up again I am going to have to cut down. My diet is equally insane, but I have my doctors supervision. I went to the gym today after having a thyroid biopsy and it sucked, but I just forced it. I guess the reason I do all of this is because whenever I conjure up a dark moment: I was running a mile in PE, I got very sick, but was determined to finish. I keeled over and vomited and it was disgusting, everyone passed me and went on to finish the mile. When they finished they were allowed to go back inside, I had to finish those two laps outside alone, while everyone inside looked out the window at me. My PE teacher looked at me in disapproval. It took me 12:42 to run that mile. I spent the rest of the day beyond upset with myself. I guess right now getting in shape is motivated in part because of the sheer hatred I feel, and the raw anger in my body, that I can't contain any other way. If I didn't have that intense feeling of hatred I doubt I would be as motivated to change. If the stuff never happened to me, I wouldn't be so hateful because there would be no reason to hate anyone. To live productively, I try to remember that I know people who are wasting their lives away, and that in 2 to 3 months I'll hit my goal weight and I'll be "perfect" again.


You can probably lose weight fast that way, but you won't see much in terms of gains, I don't think. Dunno about cardio, but in weight training it's not recommended to workout more than an hour at a time (and half a weight workout is rest periods) three times a week or so. Physical stress releases cortisol, messes everything up.

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PostPosted: 12 Sep 2015, 03:31 
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Fonduman wrote:
Chibithulhu wrote:
I had a doctor fuck up my health by prescribing me the wrong medicine. I was left fat (my waist was 37 inches), anemic and probably infertile, and her medication almost killed me. I ended up in the emergency room five different times from complications related to her being incompetent. My hair was falling out, I doubled in size, the pigmentation in my skin changed and I was extremely weak and fatigued. Prior to this I had been extremely active, I played rugby, I ran a marathon at 2:43:22, I did all manner of martial arts, and I was the best at dodgeball. All of a sudden, when I would try to run a mile in PE my knees would give out and I'd eat shit, or be embarrassingly vomiting on the sidelines. It fucking sucked. About a year ago I found a new doctor, we went through my paperwork and found Doctor Frankenstein's numerous fuck-ups. Nowadays, I go to the gym everyday for 3 hours: 2 hours of cardio, 1 hour of machine work. Now that school is starting up again I am going to have to cut down. My diet is equally insane, but I have my doctors supervision. I went to the gym today after having a thyroid biopsy and it sucked, but I just forced it. I guess the reason I do all of this is because whenever I conjure up a dark moment: I was running a mile in PE, I got very sick, but was determined to finish. I keeled over and vomited and it was disgusting, everyone passed me and went on to finish the mile. When they finished they were allowed to go back inside, I had to finish those two laps outside alone, while everyone inside looked out the window at me. My PE teacher looked at me in disapproval. It took me 12:42 to run that mile. I spent the rest of the day beyond upset with myself. I guess right now getting in shape is motivated in part because of the sheer hatred I feel, and the raw anger in my body, that I can't contain any other way. If I didn't have that intense feeling of hatred I doubt I would be as motivated to change. If the stuff never happened to me, I wouldn't be so hateful because there would be no reason to hate anyone. To live productively, I try to remember that I know people who are wasting their lives away, and that in 2 to 3 months I'll hit my goal weight and I'll be "perfect" again.


You can probably lose weight fast that way, but you won't see much in terms of gains, I don't think. Dunno about cardio, but in weight training it's not recommended to workout more than an hour at a time (and half a weight workout is rest periods) three times a week or so. Physical stress releases cortisol, messes everything up.

I don't think you know what you are talking about. Last week I deadlifted 240lbs. It's pretty advanced for my height and weight. Working out this way has not harmed me, and my doctor and all 5 of my trainers are aware of most of what I've been doing. The endorphin release and my particular diet should offset any cortisol release. I trained like that a while back (for 4 years) and it has done nothing but make me tougher. When you have a medical issue you have to fight against it a lot harder than the average person does.

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