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 Post subject: Early family life
PostPosted: 18 Sep 2015, 03:33 
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I read Dr. Gilmartin's book, and parts of it really spoke to me. Especially the section 'family as a hotbed of rage and belittlement'. You see, when I was younger my mother and I used to get into bad arguments. Occasionally, these fights turned ugly. I honestly think my mother had some kind of psychological dysfunction, although I'm not sure what it is (possibly narcissism, but I'm not 100% sure).

However, I've been thinking about it. Love shyness shouldn't happen just due to this alone. Because I don't think my mother's reactions were completely outside the human experience. If love-shyness is genetic, there's no way that these 'love-shy' genes would be passed on to the next generation, UNLESS there were something in the environment -- either the social environment, or the physical environment -- which alters development in some way. I'm not convinced that my mother's outbursts were sufficient to cause my love-shyness.

I think that pesticide exposure may be a factor. Some of these pesticides may affect the developing brain. Anyway, that's just my two cents.


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 Post subject: Re: Early family life
PostPosted: 18 Sep 2015, 09:34 
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aoeusnth2002 wrote:
I read Dr. Gilmartin's book, and parts of it really spoke to me. Especially the section 'family as a hotbed of rage and belittlement'. You see, when I was younger my mother and I used to get into bad arguments. Occasionally, these fights turned ugly. I honestly think my mother had some kind of psychological dysfunction, although I'm not sure what it is (possibly narcissism, but I'm not 100% sure).

However, I've been thinking about it. Love shyness shouldn't happen just due to this alone. Because I don't think my mother's reactions were completely outside the human experience. If love-shyness is genetic, there's no way that these 'love-shy' genes would be passed on to the next generation, UNLESS there were something in the environment -- either the social environment, or the physical environment -- which alters development in some way. I'm not convinced that my mother's outbursts were sufficient to cause my love-shyness.

I think that pesticide exposure may be a factor. Some of these pesticides may affect the developing brain. Anyway, that's just my two cents.
That section really spoke to me too, and it was, in my case, if anything, a gross understatement (see the horror stories I've posted on here before.) I doubt that this alone caused LS, but I think it was the largest single contributing factor.

It is likely that there are some genetic or otherwise innate contributing factors. An inborn tendency towards shyness and/or melancholic temperament are likely to contribute to LS given the right (wrong) environment later. Additionally, being a runt throughout childhood, as I was, will make it more likely for that wrong environment to present itself and have the worst possible effect.

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 Post subject: Re: Early family life
PostPosted: 18 Sep 2015, 12:29 
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I don't see how my mother's condition would have contributed to my love shy. She just kept enforcing the concept of how ungrateful we are and how don't deserve anything, she used to call us "little shits"...oh yeah she was a drunk also, so not sure how that contributed in any way to my LS condition. :lol:
Dr. Gilmartin talks of the nature vs nurture concept. It is true that a shity family upbringing alone doesn't result in psychological trauma. Some people are abused as kids and grow up to be realitively well adjusted adults. Those people are likely born with the "nature" traits that allow them to cope. While others, like us, tend to not be able to cope with the abuse. There is also an interesting concept I've heard that talks about vertical and lateral acceptance. If we receive love and acceptance from our parents (vertically) as most people do we grow well adjusted. If we can't receive love there we seek it from our peers (laterally), such as gangs, etc. if we can't receive it from either source...well now you're damaged goods, tread with caution.

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I remember in high school how annoyed my older brother was when I showed up around his "social situations". I remember the look of disgust he gave me and the scoffing. Telling me to go away, I was an embarrassment to be associated with. My younger brother and his friends had made an interview style video where each took turns talking about how much of a loser I was...I found the recording. Perhaps that was intentional.
I remember the high school social media club (the kind that make year book videos) approached me to interview, pulled me from class, in the hallway, camera in my face, snickers and hostile mocking. I knew why they were there and I wasn't happy. When the video came out, they showed only a brief clip of my fear and embarrassment, then showed something else.
My social status was obvious.


Last edited by SuperBetaMan on 18 Sep 2015, 14:07, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Early family life
PostPosted: 18 Sep 2015, 13:11 
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To my understanding, LS is toxic shame. Basically, it's the sense that it is inappropriate to show any kind of sexual/romantic interest in a girl at all.

It's likely this is instilled with the severity required to produce clear LS symptoms via either by, or a mixture of, environment and nature.

Nature makes us inherently less willing to "cause a scene", to step out of line socially, or to cause offense to others. It makes us care about not being inappropriate.
The environment teaches us that women are to be respected, i.e. ideas such as being friends first, that male lust is bad, that girls are disgusted by players, that girls don't like being hit on etc.

One of the main environmental influences on me that I remember was how, in films, often the villain was lecherous and lusting, while the hero was, in essence, LS. The hero might sometimes act in a way that subtly gave away his feelings for a girl, but he was never blatant about his feelings. The villain would openly lust after the girl, and the girl would be disgusted. The girl would pick up on the hero's feelings, then respond, and a relationship would spontaneously form.

Basically, the environment taught us that it's impolite and disgusting to openly chase DSR, while nature makes us more likely to heed these messages and take them to heart.

For a recent example of this, look at the first three spiderman movies. The hero dynamic is obvious, and doesn't need explanation, but for a blatant example of the villain dynamic, there's the scene where the muggers are going to rape Mary Jane, and they're acting all lustful, until the apparently asexual hero comes to rescue her, upon which they kiss.

I never took from that, as feminists would imply, that girls are trophies to be won. I took from that that females respond to and appreciate not blatantly throwing your sexuality in their face.

In reality, of course, things are different. And hence is LS born, where you're afraid to make your feelings known lest it disgusts them.

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 Post subject: Re: Early family life
PostPosted: 18 Sep 2015, 14:57 
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Fonduman, that is very true and a great post.

There is a difference between the world of what we would morally precieve or would like to exist and the reality of the world we live in.
Society and religion often try to paint a picture of what it is to be and do "right". Often being a nice guy, a gentleman is heavily supported and promoted. Media often portrays these concepts of what we'd like the world to be, how we'd like men to behave.
We are taught as children by adults who fail to heed their own moral guides (not sure why we do this. A concept of hoping we can raise the next generation to be better than ourselves I guess? And when has this ever happened?), that that is the goal we should strive for. Sadly the reality is nice guys, the kind who are passive, soft, non assertive and non threatening on the surface do finish last. Superheros often embodied these traits however inside they often posses God-like powers. It's no surprise because of this social delinquents love superheros, they embody the soft and abused outside like themselves but yet they can fantasize on the idea of having a secrete God-like strength.
As a 37 year old adult I see this now but nonshys typically see the reality of this world by puberty and realize there are those who DO and those who DO-NOT in life. The ones who do-not are the ones who will have the world pass them by, being naive, "drinking the Kool-aid", all the while coming in dead last, last in relationships, last in starting their sex lives (if at all) and last at job opportunities and promotions.
Woman aren't waiting on a superhero, they are waiting on a assertive, confident, well-to-do guy. Guys like that don't grow up believing the moralist idea of being a gentleman, they know what they want, they're not worried about stepping on your toes or holiding the door open for everyone, they approach, they get the job, they get the promotion, they score the touchdown...they get the girl.

Picture this...

You go to the movies to watch the newest superhero flick with a small group of friends. At the entrance you hold the door open for a pretty girl you see walking up, out of nowhere this "Alpha" type guy you believe she's with reaches over you and holds the door open for her and himself, then let's go abruptly and walks in in front of you turning to you with a pathetic smirk and look with a "pssh". He walks with this girl to the ticket booth, might buy her ticket you think, they walk inside. Later in the theater you connect with the superhero, you relate to his quiet subdued self and cheer for his heroic actions overpowering and defeating the enemy, while being completely "nice" about it of course, the girl falls into HIS arms and you yell, "SEE! THIS is the way it's supposed to be!" Meanwhile, chad and his first date-girlfriend have left halfway through the movie to his car so they can go to pound town.
At the end of the night who will be happier? The guy who will go home to his computer, his models on a screen and fantasize that he is a superhero and these woman will fall into his arms or the guy who will go back to his place, pass out on his bed with a satisfying smile of banging one of the hottest girls in school with no intentions of calling her back.

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I remember in high school how annoyed my older brother was when I showed up around his "social situations". I remember the look of disgust he gave me and the scoffing. Telling me to go away, I was an embarrassment to be associated with. My younger brother and his friends had made an interview style video where each took turns talking about how much of a loser I was...I found the recording. Perhaps that was intentional.
I remember the high school social media club (the kind that make year book videos) approached me to interview, pulled me from class, in the hallway, camera in my face, snickers and hostile mocking. I knew why they were there and I wasn't happy. When the video came out, they showed only a brief clip of my fear and embarrassment, then showed something else.
My social status was obvious.


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 Post subject: Re: Early family life
PostPosted: 19 Sep 2015, 17:00 
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Well ... this doesn't seem to apply to me. I recall that my early childhood was great any my life has been spiraling downhill since kindergarten.

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