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PostPosted: 26 Jun 2010, 22:26 
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As most of the regulars on here know, I used sex sites to circumvent LS. And, despite the objections of certain other members on here, I maintain that if I can do it, anyone else can, too. So, for those who care to try, here is some detailed advice on how to get this plan to work for you. Some of this might seem obvious, but better to type it out for those who might benefit from it than skip it. Make of it what you will.

I approached the problem as an LS, and there were two main draws to this plan. One was obvious. LS would cause insurmountable anxiety if I tried to approach women in real life, but by having a buffer in both distance and time - I can take as much time as I want to think and type a message, instead of having to think on my feet in real-time - the problem becomes surmountable. It was difficult, but not impossible, to get started. The other advantage is that the women who were on these sites could only be there for sex, so I didn't have to beat around the bush or pretend that I was there for any other reason.

Non-LS incels will have less of an anxiety problem, which will only make it that much easier for them. If they are incel for some other reason, well... still gotta try. Even if you want more than just sex, think of this as practice. No one has opened any "practice dating" centers along Gilmartin's lines yet, so think of this as self-directed practice. Some internet pussy will give you some much-needed experience with women, and every time will banish the LS anxiety a little further away. Besides, it's still fun :)

The purpose of this exercise is to defeat LS and to put yourself in a better position to be able to get a girl-friend. It can easily be done in conjunction with the suggestions of the other LS posters - working out, for example.

Don't rush into things willy-nilly without thinking. Do some forethought and preparation before you start. If you plan for contingencies now, there will be fewer unpleasant surprises later, LS-induced panic + hasty emergency move = failure!
Be willing to put a lot of work into the project, and be patient!
Skipping laborious information-gathering processes may cause you grief or at least failure to get laid. Don't be lazy!

Things you will need:
    A small sum of money
    A notebook and pencil (or equivalent)
    Condoms
    Industry and patience

Things you should expect to find:
    All ages are present on sites like this, but the largest age group is 30s-40s. Especially for the younger members, don't let this put you off. While some of the women in this age range won't be interested in men the age of the younger members on here, some of the women won't care (and a few will prefer it!) If this age range doesn't bother you, then away you go. If it does put you off, remember that pussy is pussy, and remember that eliminating such a large percentage of women on these sites is an inauspicious start!
    All shapes and sizes and levels of attractiveness are present. I know it's difficult to force yourself to be attracted to someone you're not attracted to, but make every reasonable effort to consider any woman you find even somewhat attractive. As above, the fewer women you eliminate from consideration, the better position you are in.
    There are many times more men than women on these sites. Men outnumber women by a margin between 6:1 and 8:1 in most places. This does not mean that only a small number of men will get laid - most men will be able to get laid on such sites if they play their cards right. It does mean that you will most likely have to share each woman with other men. Although it's not completely impossible that you might meet a woman who likes you, you should not expect to find an exclusive relationship. Remember, the point of this exercise is to banish LS, gain experience, get laid and make finding a regular girl-friend easier.
    A few of the women are married. Stay away from them. Even if you don't believe that having sex with them would be wrong. The recovering LS has enough to think about. You don't need the drama!
    A few of the women are perverts. Stay away from them. The first order of business is to defeat your LS, to become comfortable with talking to women (over the internet, at least), meeting them, interacting with them and having sex with them. Once you've done this a few times, the LS anxiety will recede a little at a time. If you want to try exhibitionism or BDSM or orgies after this happens, go and have fun! But don't try to do too much at once or try too many new things too fast, or LS anxiety and panic may ruin your day!
    Expect to spend a little money. Some sites are free (Plenty of Fish, for example, which has a setting for sex only), but some of them require payment (AFF is the most well known.) It's not very expensive, but you do need to budget for it.
    Don't expect instant results. Proper preparation will take time and there will be some possibly boring reading involved, but it's better to have the information and not need it than to need it and not have it.

Ok, it's time to begin. Choose your site. I used POF and AFF (and had more success with the latter.) There are others out there. Visit the site and read the front page. Don't join yet. Click on some of the links that are on that page (features, searches, privacy policy, terms of use, help). Read everything you can find! Even if it's boring fine print, read everything. Get your notebook and pencil and write down anything that strikes you as interesting or memorable. (If you prefer to take notes on the computer, do that instead.) Keep reading! Now, go to Wikipedia or Google or both and ask them for even more information about that site. Read it! Take notes! Knowledge is power. Forewarned is forearmed. Look for hard information or statistics from a reliable source and be wary of "testimonials" - you have no idea whether they were written by legitimate pleased members or by shills (or even bots).

Haven't found any red flags, like a reputation for selling your information to spammers? Ready to join? Go ahead and sign up. The first thing you will need to do is pick a handle. Try to come up with one that’s memorable, but if you can't think of anything offhand, just try to come up with a handle that hasn't been done to death already. I recommend not using a handle that's overtly sexual. Pick one and go with it and don't second-guess yourself later. Join the site. Most pay sites will let you join for free, although you can't really do much as a free member. Sign up but don't give them any money just yet. Before you do anything else, fill out your profile.

Filling out the profile was one of the more difficult steps for me. Setting your vital statistics is easy, filling out the open-ended answers, not so easy. Only you know what you want, and you will have to use your own best judgement how to say it. If the site offers you some suggestions, you might want to take them, but if you do, rephrase them into your own words. A lot of people don't, and these will be easy to recognize because the same phrase will keep popping up again and again. Make it look like you put some effort into your profile. Especially for the average LS, I recommend talking about the kind of environment you want. Peace and quiet, no stress, no distractions, no extra people, are all important to not make the typical LS any more stressed-out or anxious than he needs to be. This is another reason I recommend targeting the 30s-40s age group to help defeat your LS, besides their greater numbers on sex sites. I believe that they will be more willing and able to provide you this environment. A typical 22-year-old on a sex site might want to drink and party and take drugs and have people coming and going at all hours of the day and night. Sound like fun for an LS? I thought not. Go for the 39-year-old divorced mom instead, who has probably outgrown such habits, and who might want to send the brats to a friend's house for the evening so she can relax and turn off the puerile TV shows like "Barney the Purple Dinosaur" and catch up on having some adult fun. Let it be with you! Remember, it's just sex, you aren't being asked to help raise the kids. A word of caution, though - if you go this route, you will be expected to at least try to match her level of maturity. If you can't carry on a conversation for more than a few minutes about anything other than school, drinking games, and video game consoles, you will probably only make her uncomfortable.

The last step in building your profile is posting a photograph. As with your handle, don't post anything overtly sexual. No penis pictures! Just a simple picture of your face will do, and it doesn't even have to be the best quality picture. If you are asked about it, you can always say that it was the best one you had at the time. Don't assume that your appearance disqualifies you from using a photo or having success on these sites, either. It's not all about looks! Your goal should be to create a profile that's memorable, or at least unique. That may mean posting a more conservative picture than most. It might also mean watching your spelling and grammar as you type, don't be like the lazy masses who type in all lower case or use one-letter abbreviations for short words. I recommend not mentioning LS in your profile. Don't give them an excuse to brand you as a freak. You understand LS doesn't make you a freak. They might not. If you're a virgin, I recommend keeping that to yourself, too. If asked, you can always tell them (truthfully) that you're not as experienced as you would like and you're using the sites to try to rectify that.

Once you have filled out your profile, go to the main page. Don't start browsing yet, there is more exploring to do. Click on the links within the site and see where they go. Figure out what you can do, and what you can't do, from where you are. Take more notes! Get into your account settings or preferences and change them to how you would like them. I recommend you set yourself to browse anonymously - that is, set it so that if you read someone's profile, that other person won't be able to see your handle on a list of people who has viewed it. You might want to go back and re-read profiles later, without giving the impression that you are an obsessed cyber-stalker.

If you are using a pay site, you will have to get one of the paid memberships before you can do anything meaningful, like send first-contact messages. (It is reasonable to assume that people can respond to messages without being a paid member. If you discover that is not the case, walk away now!) If you're ready to begin, stop! Go back to your settings or to the help guides. Sex sites will typically set your account to automatically bill you whenever your time expires. For obvious reasons, the sites will make it easy to give them money and difficult to stop giving them money. So, you might have to search for it. Find this setting and turn it off! Don't risk finding out the hard way that they buried the setting in some impossible-to-find place or make you jump through hoops to cancel. You don't want to be this guy, right? If you can't find the setting, or if it involves some excruciating process like calling some brain-dead guy in India with an accent that's too thick for you to understand and arguing with him for two hours, then don't walk, run from this site. Delete the account you just made and never look back! Go back to the beginning and start over!

When you have satisfied yourself that you'll be able to leave the site as easily as you joined, go ahead and get two or three months worth of membership. There might be more than one level of paid membership, with the higher levels offering more features (possibly more advanced search features, getting dibs on new members, access to different features of the site). Don't bother with those. Get the lowest level of membership that allows you to do the two important things: view profiles and send messages. You can do the rest by hand - use a little elbow grease and save your money.

Sharpen your pencil because it's time to take some notes. Start browsing the profiles. Use as many search features as your level of membership allows access to. Be as flexible as you feel you can force yourself to be with your requirements. Set your search radius for maybe an hours' drive - a smaller distance if you live in a densely populated area than a rural area. Read each profile carefully, even if it takes time. Don't rush! Get out your notebook and write down the handle, a few vital statistics (height, age, race, hair color, etc.) - these may be useful for keeping track of who is who if they change their handle or start over with a new account. Besides creating a reference for you to consult without having to pay for the extra search features, the act of writing the handles will help you remember them, which in turn will make it easier to spot one on your computer that you don't recognize: it could be someone who just joined. Write down how closely the profiles match what you're looking for. Write down how closely you match what they're looking for, based on what you read in the profile. Use your best judgment to decide whether to mark that profile down as a "yes", a "maybe" in case of a near-miss, or a "no" if it's way off. For example if she put down that she wants someone who's between 35 and 45, and you're 33, you might be able to talk her into making a near exception for you. If you're 19 you might just be wasting effort. Don't send any messages yet. Keep doing this until you have a dozen or so "yes" and "maybe" profiles.

Now, go back and look at them again. Can you spot any fake profiles? There's likely to be at least a few on a free site (or with free memberships on pay sites.) These could be spammers, scammers, bored pranksters or people conducting message-gathering experiments. It's difficult to have a foolproof method of spotting them, and more difficult to put that method into words, but there are some things you can look out for. Watch out for photographs that are a little bit too good or appear professionally taken. Models generally don't use sex sites. Look out for things in the profile that don't look right, especially when you can compare them to what you expect to be right. Anyone can make a typo or have a brain fart, but be suspicious of someone who claims to have gone to see George Washington's home in Mount Vernon, Illinois. Such a profile probably belongs to a Nigerian scam artist who was slipshod about his research. Even if you don't find any obvious mistakes that you can put your finger on, trust your instincts. If it looks too good to be true, it probably is.

You also might run across some prostitutes on these sites. They are unlikely to come right out and say it - they could get into legal trouble in most jurisdictions, or at least thrown off of the site for terms of service violation - but they can imply it, dancing around the letter of the law or the TOS. If you find someone who is looking for "generou$ gentlemen", scratch her off your list. Even if you would normally consider paying for sex, remember why you started this exercise: to learn how to deal with women so that you will be able to approach them and they will want you to approach them because they are interested in you, not in your wallet. Patronizing prostitutes will not cure your LS. Some women may post an innocuous profile and will state or imply that they expect payment for their services only in reply to a message you send to them. Just forget about them, for the same reasons.

It's time to start sending some messages, at last! I recommend you don't start sending out messages left and right, but ration yourself. Go to your notebook and pick out a maximum of three women per week and send them messages. You don't want to run through them too fast; if you run out of possible women to write to, then you have to either wait for new women to join, or start over at another site. Also, if you are more successful than you think you will be, you might find yourself with two different women wanting to see you on the same night! On your first week, I recommend not starting with the three profiles that look the most promising. Pick some other ones, from your "yes" category just above the "maybe" category. Do this so that you can iron out any kinks in your game first - practicing your practice, if you like. (But, if one of them works out, by all means, follow through!)

When sending a message, try to imagine yourself in the woman's place. Do your best to empathize and don't let your prejudices cloud your judgement. Keep these principles in mind:
    Always, always, always mention something - anything - in the woman's profile other than her photograph or the size of her tits. This way, she knows that you took the time to read the whole thing (you did take the time to read it, right?) If you can figure out a way to make it an important part of your message, so much the better, but to mention something in passing is better than not at all.
    Don't use form letters or copy and paste. Even if the idea is much the same, write a new message from scratch for each woman. You are trusting your instincts, but they are trusting theirs too, and theirs might tell them when someone is trying the grape-shot approach. Besides increasing your chances, it will help with your LS as well. Forcing yourself to think about what you want to say and come up with new ways of saying it will help dispel your nervousness and anxiety a little at a time. Sending form letters won't. Don't be lazy!
    Don't write messages that are too short. It shows laziness and selfishness. If you were a woman and received a message that said "hey wanna fuck?" would you do anything other than press the delete button?
    Don't write messages that are too long. For a first message, a few sentences or even a paragraph or two is nice, but a long, rambling monologue is overkill. You're there to get laid. So are they. Don't beat around the bush. If you want to talk to them in great detail about other subjects, they might be happy to do so, but let it be on later messages or face to face.
    Don't write messages that are too tentative. This is one of the more difficult directions for an LS, because it's all we can do to write a first contact message at all! But begging, pleading, or even spending more than a short time making your case will not impress very many women. They will think you are unconfident or desperate. Just tell them that you are interested.
    Don't write messages that are too aggressive. If you come across as too pushy or demanding, they might perceive you as dangerous and you will get nowhere. Similarly, no matter how misogynistic you may be feeling, try not to let it show when you type. The woman you are writing to has not wronged you personally, has she?
    Be confident. Be pleasant. Be honest.

After you send a message, write down in your notebook that you sent a message to that person. As the number of messages you send grows into the dozens, it's easy to lose track of who you've already messaged and who you haven't. Also write down what kind of reply you get, if you get one at all. Remember your "maybe" list and go after the ones that you almost match. Unless they wrote that their requirements are absolutely ironclad (or yours are), they might be flexible and you have nothing to lose by trying. The worst that can happen is they ignore you or say no.

Nervous yet? Log off and congratulate yourself for making first contact by having a pizza or some other treat. You've earned it.

Go back to the site one or two days later, when the women you wrote to have had time to receive and read your message, and maybe reply to it. See if you've got any messages!

You might have received a first-contact message from a woman you did not talk to. Don't get your hopes up. Go ahead and read it, but you will almost certainly find that it is a solicitation from a prostitute, a pornographer, a cam whore, a scammer, or a spammer. Legitimate women don't make first contact on sex sites because they don't need to. You will have to go to them.

Expect that most of the women you talk to will reject you, either by sending a brief, possibly prefabricated reply that says something along the lines of "sorry, not interested" or by completely ignoring you. Don't take it personally. You did the best you could. Just forget about them and move on. You might get an undesirable reply, the kind that reveals that you just messaged a prostitute or a Nigerian con artist. Forget about these, too. You might find that none of the women you wrote to that first week replied at all. That can happen sometimes. There are many more - you are pacing yourself, right? - and you can try again next week with a few more. Counting all replies, even unfavorable ones, I got a response rate of roughly 1 in 5, which seems very beatable to me. If you get a response rate of 1 in 3, you get one new reply each week. Even if you do much worse, like 1 in 15 or 1 in 20, you should find a woman who's interested within a couple of months. That's a lot of time and effort, but nobody said it was going to be easy, right? And that's still an improvement over the nothing you had before, right?

Now suppose you get a tentatively favorable reply. She read your message and your profile, and might be interested, but she isn't sure. Maybe you're a year or two out of her preferred age range, or something in your profile looked a little "off" to her. Send her a reply. Try once to make your case about why that shouldn't be a problem. Take as many words as you need to address her concerns, but try to be brief, and as before, be confident, be pleasant, be honest. Don't get all frustrated and don't call her picky. It's entirely possible that she is sending you this "maybe" reply as a test to see what you will do and how you will react. (One of the women I met on the sex sites did this.) If your reply sounds good to her, you are good to move on to the next step. If not, the worst she can do is say no. There is a small possibility that you might get another tentative reply. If she does so and asks for more information, answer her as best you can, but if remains vague and seems like she's just inches out of your reach, she might be exactly that. She might just be jerking you around. If you're not making any headway, forget her and move on.

Ok, your reply satisfied her that you are worth a try, and you got a favorable response. Or, if you were lucky, you got a favorable response to your original, first-contact message. They might ask you about dates and times - more on that later - but most likely they will want to chat in real-time first, probably on an instant messenger program. You will have to share your handles with each other. But, be careful about how you do this. The sex sites have been known to have bots read all messages that go back and forth in their system and edit them or even block them if they think someone is giving away too much information too fast - such a person might be a scammer, or a gull. (For example, I discovered that if you type "AFF" in a message on AFF, the other person will see the full name of the site - Adult Friend Finder - in the message, substituted for AFF.) The bots are presumed to be programmed to recognize the names of instant messenger programs, so if you want to avoid their interference, you will have to dance around it. For example, if she tells you to look her up with a certain handle on "the hoo that begins with y", that means Yahoo Messenger. If you see an obviously coded phrase you don't understand, Google is your best friend.

Now it gets a little harder and a little easier at the same time. A little harder, because once you are talking to her on instant messenger, you have to think in real-time (you can stall a little by pretending to be a slow typist, but that will not get you much time.) A little easier, because you've already made the first step, you know she's interested and you only have to not blow it. Unless she brings it up right away, don't start talking about sex first thing; make a little bit of small talk first. Keep up the conversation as best you can. Ask her how she heard of the site. Ask her what she does for work. Ask her to elaborate a little bit. But don't start grilling her like a district attorney, especially not on a sensitive subject. If she asks you similar things, tell her, with a little detail, but not too much. Don't give one-word answers and expect the conversation not to falter. Don't bore her to death with details that no one cares about or inside jokes no one gets, either. Be alert for things she says that might be trying to trip you up or throw you off kilter. Think before you type! If you get caught in a lie, you can't take it back. If you blow it, you will have to go back to the drawing board. This is one of the most difficult stages for the LS, because the pressure is on now! THINK!! As long as you remember to think and don't panic, you still control what you type! Be confident. Be pleasant. Be honest.

You survived this far and now she wants to know your schedule. I recommend being as flexible as you can, but stop short of telling her you're available any time. You have to go to work or to school, and you shouldn't need to blow them off in order to get laid. Perhaps you have things to do one night a week or one or two nights per month (in my case, union meetings.) You'll more than likely be able to agree on an evening when you are both available. She might ask, do you have condoms? Of course you do. Now she wants to meet you Thursday night at 7:30. Holy shit, does this mean what I think it does???

The hard part is over now, but you still have some preparation to do. I recommend that you do not masturbate for 36 hours prior to your "date", no matter how horny you get. LS-induced anxiety + recent orgasm = difficulty getting it up! On the other hand, if you go for more than a few days, you might finish too soon, and that's not much fun, either. Before you meet her, remember to take a shower and wear some clean clothes. Allow yourself enough time to get there. Don't be late. Don't forget the condoms, either. They are the only form of birth control that you can control. You really don't know if she's on BC or not. They're also the only reasonable protection against VD's. Most women will make your using them a condition of meeting you, if only to protect themselves. If she doesn't, she might not have made her previous partners wear them, either. It's the only dick you will ever have, so protect it against VD's.

The woman might want to go eat first. If this is the case, go for it. Be aware that this could be part of her screening process too, so be alert and think before you speak! You've already talked to her remotely by messages on the sex site. You've already talked to her in real-time on the instant messenger. So the only new thing being added is you are face to face. You have worked up to this in increments instead of trying to do it all at once, so you should be able to overcome your LS to do this. Bring enough money to pay your own way. Don't let her pay for your meal even if she offers (well, maybe if she absolutely, positively insists.) She is likely trying to screen out users and freeloaders. Don't feel you have to pay for hers, either. She invited you.

There are three places you can go - your place, her place, or some third location such as a motel. Whichever one she suggests, go along with it. She might not be comfortable inviting a near-stranger over, especially if she has kids. She also might not be comfortable going to a near-stranger's place. Make her as comfortable as you can, because either of these is cheaper than a motel, but if she insists on a motel, don't argue. For your part, exercise reasonable caution before bringing over a near-stranger, or going to her or to a third location. Don't take anything particularly valuable, and don't leave anything valuable lying around at your place. This should be common sense, but people get stuff stolen every day, and not just by potential sex partners. Check the address of the place you're going. Do you know the area? Is it in the ghetto? Do your research and be careful. The odds that you are being set up for a fall are extremely remote, but remember that if you don't look out for your own safety, no one else will, either. Do your reconnaissance. Take notes. Drive by the address a day or two before, so that you will know how to get to it easily, and more importantly, how to get away from it easily, in case of an emergency.

So the big day is here at last, now go and enjoy yourself! You've just put a month's worth of work into this project, and approached it piecemeal, and hopefully your LS isn't making you too nervous. The anxiety should get less now that you've done the hard part, and if all goes well, your horniness will overwhelm and obliterate your anxiety. She might want to chit chat a little bit beforehand, or she might want to get started right away. As soon as you're both ready, have sex! you have just kicked LS's ass!

Before you leave, be sure to ask her if or when she'd be interested in getting together again, and remember to call her or drop her an instant message over the next couple of days. If she is interested, then your second meeting will be a lot easier than the first, because you now have some experience and know what you're doing. You might be able to parlay this into a "friends with benefits" arrangement, which at the very least, will give you even more valuable experience while finally meeting some of your sexual needs. Save the victory celebration for when you are back on your way home.

If she isn't interested, or fails to return any more of your messages, don't take it personally, don't beg, don't curse her out and don't keep trying after several messages go unanswered. It won't do you any good. Consider yourself better off for the experience you gained and go back to the list. There are more women on the sites, and if I can get a few of them, anyone can!

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PostPosted: 27 Jun 2010, 09:07 
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Stickied for easier reference and because this is kickass advice. I've been waiting for you to finally post about how to do the sex site method.


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PostPosted: 27 Jun 2010, 19:09 
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Thanks for the info :)

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Wow, can't believe I read all that. Good advice, defintely bookmarking.

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Fantastic, man. Great advice.

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Visiting a prostitute is much simpler.

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PostPosted: 01 Jul 2010, 13:33 
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Mikey wrote:
Visiting a prostitute is much simpler.

This is a good point, but I would guess that it is more complex than that. I suspect that many of these women on Craig's List, AFF, etc., really are prostitutes, but they are not necessarily charging full price for every guy.

I know I am speculating here, based on what I have read, but consider the situation for a prostitute. Most of her male clients are some combination of old, fat, and ugly, which makes them very sexually undesirable. Some have sufficient money to pay for her services, but others have a lot more money to throw around. So the older fat businessman with lots of money ends up paying full price. These girls are very savvy about sizing up a customer to figure out how much he wants her services and how much he can afford to pay. (I know this from dealing with strippers. And my father once told me the same kind of thing happens with gypsy fortune tellers, which is even more of a scam where they try to latch onto rich guys to get continuing business.)

On the other hand, we have some guys who may be average or below average in facial appearance, but they are young, which is a definite plus-point, and physically fit, and may even be bodybuilder physique types. So she may go with one of these guys without payment, because they are so much better than the typical guy she gets. And it would also depend on her looks, if she is only average or below, this is more likely, if she doesn't get that much business. The super good-looking fashionable escorts can get sufficient high-paying business so they don't need to go this route, and they can even turn down paying customers based on a whim if their schedule is already full. (I've seen this kind of thing in strip bars also, where the best-looking girl gets to pick and choose very carefully which clients she wants to deal with.)

I also suspect that many of the girls that PUAs pick up in clubs are semi-prostitutes, in the sense that they would go with rich guys for a night, a week, or a month if they really needed the money, but also enjoy picking up handsome young guys for fun.


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PostPosted: 04 Jul 2010, 17:53 
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I did more or less exactly this last year! OK, I am 60, so the women on these sites don't seem old to me (LOL!).

It worked after about 5 months of trying, and I now visit the lady every few weeks for some fun! I met my original partner nearly 40 years ago using a somewhat similar dating scheme - I might have been incel all my life without this method of dating.

The really great thing, as ieatboogers points out, is that the early stages happen on your computer - nerves don't matter. I went on a real emotional roller-coaster while I was using the site - I seemed to get in contact with loads of women, who disappeared equally quickly. I remember one evening when one woman who had seemed really serious, suddenly announced she had met up with an old partner (24 hours before our intended date :( ) and then I was contacted by another woman!

You also have to accept that you will have some meetings that go nowhere. You have to keep telling yourself that if you keep meeting women, your nerves will steady a bit, and sooner or later you will score! I sent out about 100 messages, and met 7 women before I got lucky. One of those 7, gave me a bit of a snog in her car, and noticed I was actually shaking! That wasn't the problem, though, she just decided she wanted someone younger!

My feeling is that if you can stand the emotional upset, and you are not over-picky, you will get what you want. Don't underestimate the emotional upset bit - I get the feeling some men here are really worn down by being LS, so you have to be sure you can take it. Possibly some medication would help a bit.

BTW, I tried to stay roughly in character in my initial contacts with women - I decided it was probably best to appear a little shy rather than really forward - then I didn't seem out of character at the actual meeting.

Finally, do remember that many of the women on these sites have problems of their own. Make sure to be nice to them, even if (for whatever reason) you don't want to take things further.

FS


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PostPosted: 06 Jul 2010, 21:12 
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Great post! I think the "small sum of money" may be a bit misleading. What do sites normally charge these days, say $20/month? After six months it's still cheaper than a hooker. And a hookup can be cheaper than a date, since you don't have to buy dinner and movie tix.

I don't know if you've really "kicked LS's ass" by scoring online, but it's definitely awesome. Most likely, you won't be really attracted to the woman and are thinking only about sex and not romance, so your LS anxieties may not get all that high with her.

I recently came across some books about online dating. They mostly look somewhat cheesy, light, for a nonLS audience and possibly outdated, but anything to up your game and increase your odds. I don't know anything about them, but since Ieat shows that it can be done...

Slow & Tight: Every Man's Guide to Online Dating
http://www.amazon.com/dp/143925768X/ref ... 0_pe_ar_d7
Online Dating for Dummies by Judy Silverstein
I Can't Believe I'm Buying This Book: A Commonsense Guide to Successful Internet Dating
Romancing The Web: A Therapist's Guide To The Finer Points Of Online Dating
The Boomer's Guide to Online Dating by Judsen Culbreth
The Ultimate Man's Guide to Internet Dating: The premier men's resource for finding, attracting, meeting and dating women online
Know Your Enemy: An Internet Dating Handbook For Men by Lee Thomas


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PostPosted: 10 Jul 2010, 07:16 
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PostPosted: 10 Jul 2010, 14:10 
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e_i-2 wrote:
...I could answer that question saying this --> It would appear you have side-stepped the issue of sex and dating with girls your own age by moving to ones which are more mature, learned there, and then when you want something serious in a relationship then you go back to girl your own age.
Yes, this is the idea, use the sex sites just to get pussy, gain experience, reduce your LS anxiety, etc. then go from there. As for myself, I don't care about age differences even in relationships - the woman from '03 was over 25 years older than me, and the one I'm seeing now is 8 years older than me. But I don't expect everyone to think that way.
e_i-2 wrote:
Btw, could you add at the beginning a small paragraph just so we know where you're coming from? Can you list your 'criteria', age when you started this, relative looks in terms of face and body, your experience in dating, sex, and relationships, and what would you classify yourself as love-shy or incel? . . . help us relate more to your post and your recovery.
My criteria for sex only are: Be female. Be unmarried/unattached. Be of legal age. Be free of VD's.
I had much-below average experience, being LS. I was LS by Gilmartin's definitions until 2003, when I hooked up with that woman I mentioned earlier but by luck rather than by effort. That was good, but it ran its course and I got nothing between 2004 and 2007 because of continuing LS. Then there was the Debacle (described in another post). After that, I joined LS.com and just had to start doing something - after reading some posts here and Gilmartin's book, I came up with the plan I put into action. I was 27 when I joined this forum (30 now.)
e_i-2 wrote:
Quote:
Don't assume that your appearance disqualifies you from using a photo or having success on these sites, either. It's not all about looks! Your goal should be to create a profile that's memorable, or at least unique.
Care to elaborate on this point? In relation to those poor MEA incels in Australia whose face by their own accounts could apparently scatter a leper colony
I seriously believe that even the Sebs of the world could pull this off. It might take them a little bit longer, but I bet it can be done.

I have to go to work now. I'll elaborate some more later.

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PostPosted: 11 Jul 2010, 01:52 
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Now that I'm home from work, some more thoughts:
This thread viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2121 is more of a description of how it went for me specifically, rather than a detailed how-to guide. That might give you some of the answers you are looking for.
Also, be aware that I wasn't using mainstream dating sites for sex - that was expertper who did that. I used sites that were explicitly all about sex only - AFF for one.

Here are some more thoughts about the age issue.

Some background first. As stated, all ages are present on the sex sites, but the largest age group is the 30s-40s group. I didn't restrict myself to any age group. The youngest woman I sent a message to on the sex sites was 23; the oldest was 62. Of the ones that I actually met and fucked (there were four) the youngest was 30 and the oldest was 48 (this happened in 2007-2008, when I was 27/28). For comparison, the woman from a few years earlier was 51 when I stopped seeing her in 2004.
I remember sending a large percentage of messages to women in that 30s-40s age group simply because there were lots of them, but there is more to it than that. Based on what I saw in their profiles, they were better matched to me (see my paragraph about environment in the original post) than most; for this reason and others, I also sent more messages to women above this age range (50+) than below it (-30).
Now, this is only half of the equation, because each woman will have her own opinions about how much of an age difference is too much. If they have a strong enough opinion, they will probably put in in their profile. However, many will have wide limits themselves, many won't care at all, and a few might even prefer large differences (I remember reading the profile of a 43-year-old woman who said that 25 was her ironclad upper limit!), so there are still plenty of women of all ages who might go for the younger members on here. Also, as stated above, sometimes close counts; if you miss her preferences by just a year or two, try anyway; she might make an exception especially if you can demonstrate by talking to her that you are mature enough yourself (hint: don't talk about your Play Station). One of the women I met on the sites was like this, she was a little hesitant about the difference at first but decided I was worth a shot after she talked to me.

But anyways, what I'm trying to say is be as open minded as you possibly can. The looser your restrictions, the more potential sex partners you will have. Also keep in mind that as I stated, and as EI2 restated, you're in this first and foremost to defeat LS, gain experience, and get pussy. The more experience you get, the more the LS anxiety will fade. I'm far from 100% cured, but I can do and say things now that I could only dream of as little as three years ago. LS would have shut me down if I'd tried. If your ultimate goal is to find a girl-friend who's close to your own age, you will be off to a better start if you have some experience under your belt and LS doesn't cause you to freeze up or shut down if you try to approach one. Any positive experience is better than none.

I know my experience level is still fairly low by mainstream standards, but I can say (speaking only for myself here) that I do not see any more than an insignificant correlation between age and attractiveness. I was attracted intensely to all the women I met from the sex site and the one from a few years earlier. I want to fuck almost every woman I see, regardless of her age.

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PostPosted: 29 Jul 2010, 14:32 
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Boogers, great post and I thank you for taking the time in putting it together, and for wanting to help the other guys here but I must respectfully disagree with your assertion that internet dating/sex sites are a good way to beat LS/Incel.

Boogers, you are one of the chosen men who have succeeded on internet dating sites, because around 90 to 95% of men get nothing from internet dating sites.

I recall you mentioned that you had around a 5% success rate, well that's pretty damn good, because even some very good looking guys only have a strike rate of around 10% on internet dating sites, given the face that they are a virtual sausage fest.

I tried internet dating, and never again, internet dating was probably one of the most self esteem destroying experiences I have ever had.

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PostPosted: 30 Jul 2010, 03:45 
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This is some of the best advice I have ever seen, read all of it. I think if I can't get over ls/incel within a year or two on my own, then I am definately going to go this route...

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PostPosted: 05 Aug 2010, 03:16 
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I read this, but I don't think it would work for me. I think I know how my mind operates, and I'm pretty sensitive. Something like sex would probably screw me up if I'm not ready for it. I'm not religious, so I don't have any reason to wait. But I think that your first time should be special, and with someone you care about. I don't really think sex should be meaningless just to get more experience. But then again, maybe I'm totally wrong, and that's the right way to go.

All I know is that my emotions get really unpredictable after any kind of romantic contact with girls. After my first kiss last year, I was a roller coaster of emotions. Just the other I first made out with a girl, and we french kissed too. That after I've only ever kissed a girl with a quick peck on the lips. When I got home I was shaking, and I couldn't stop crying. I'm still kind of recovering from that. If I were to actually have sex without having to build up to it first... I think I might get suicidal or something. I don't want to find out.


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