Now, if you'd said in the beginning, 'I can be a quick-tempered arsehole', I would have understood the attraction of your fiance!
From your behaviour on this thread, you've shown that being nice and polite isn't always the best tactic. You have to appraise the situation in a discriminatory way and make a value-judgement and act accordingly.
Hence the 'Be nice', 'be polite' to the wimins just doesn't cut it, if you're amorous attentions are unwanted. You can be a nice doormat, and be all kinds of generous but you'll simply be seen as a passive-aggressive stalker/cling-er, at the end of the day.

Pop-positivity is fine to keep your spirits up but as for results in the dating game, they won't change. Many here will attest to being a noob (hopefully for a short-time) at some point in their lives. One of our posters, for instance, at New Years Celebrations this year, bought drinks for girls at some club party and they happily expected it, and drank it, but then eventually walked off to look for better prospects and paid him no more mind. There are many ways that this kind of white-knighting behaviour is encouraged from males and the primary objective of this website is to deconstruct that behaviour and throw it out.

Thanks for the fighting words and I'm sure you'll agree; you have to respond in kind to belittling and rude behaviour and not chirp like a samaritan Polyanna on Prozac.

This really doesn't chime with my experience, but we'll have to agree to disagree.



"Perpetually single", on reflection, isn't a very accurate term for what I wanted to say, and may be overstating the case. However, there are beautiful women who can't hold down lasting relationships - whether it's because they're shallow, or overly demanding, insecure, or just have really shit taste in men. Naming someone off the top of my head is difficult, because we don't know the same people. In the public eye, I'd point you to someone like Jennifer Aniston. For every beautiful woman, there's a man getting really tired of her shit, as the saying goes...



Well, again, our experiences vary, and by people, I do mean people. I take that the view that before you're going to be any kind of boyfriend or husband, you've got to be a vaguely functioning human being. If you're wrapped up in bitterness, cynicism, self-loathing and loathing of others, people (including women) won't want to know you. The point I was making was that if you're not blessed with conventional good looks, you might as well work on being the most interesting, charming person you can be. Worry about the things you can change and all that.



Well, let him assume. If I post a photo, he'll either tell me I'm too good looking and ignore me, or tell me I'm ugly, but not ugly enough , or go "Wow, you really ARE ugly!" . Either way, not going to happen. I feel like I'm putting enough of myself on public display here. FWIW, I really don't think I'm all that in the looks department, but I do believe very strongly in making the best of what I've got. Contact lenses over glasses; spending money on a decent haircut; taking care over what I wear; looking after my skin and trying to lead a healthy active lifestyle. Again, it's about playing the hand you were dealt as best you can.

Well Jonathan, the validity of your advice is banking solely on how ugly you are. NONE of the positivity bullshit you claim works applies to ugly people, period. That's real. That's it. A woman doesn't care how nice an ugly dude is.... get real buddy.... she doesn't give a fuck about how nice you are unless you're physically attractive to her first. That's the first thing people base their mating choices off.

The "broken phone" thing is odd. You could read it suspiciously, and say she's trying to keep you distant. On the other hand, it does seem to be the truth - you've seen that the phone is broken, although it does seem to be fixed now. If you're not sure about the meeting, I guess the best thing to do is to ask her, although don't make it seem like a Big Important Thing. A simple, friendly "Still want to meet up for coffee?" text/call will let you know. If she says "No", or doesn't respond, don't be too crushed - move on and look elsewhere.



This stuff is hard to judge over the internet... Did you talk naturally and easily? Did she smile, laugh, make eye contact? Physical contact is also a good sign. That's all promising, but the only way you're going to know for sure is to ante up and ask her out. It's scary, cock-on-the-block stuff, but it's the only way you'll know for sure. If you see her again, and the conversation seems to be flowing, I'd wait for a pause, and just say, "Look, I hope you don't mind me asking, but are you seeing anyone right now?" If the answer's yes, then just smile, shrug and say "Oh well..." She'll know what you were asking for. A good follow up is "Well, you can't blame me for asking..."

If she says no, just come out and say it. "I wondered if we might spend sometime together, and maybe get to know each other a bit better." She might say no - again, take it with a smile, and good grace. She might laugh in your face - in which case, why would you want to be with her anyway? If she's any kind of decent human being, she'll take it as a big compliment. Either way, you have nothing to lose, and everything to gain. Let me know how you get on...



I'll take that as a compliment. I'm really not a PUA person at all, though. Hateful, money-grubbing exploitative shit that manipulates men and women alike.

I'm not disagreeing, just saying that that's true of men too. However, what's attractive is a very, very subjectivething, and while looks do play a big part, they aren't the only thing. How do plain and even ugly people form relationships, if it's the be all and end all? Make yourself the best person you can be. Or just decide that you're ugly, regardless of what other people think, shut yourself off, and give up on the idea of ever having a girlfriend. I don't think I'm going to change your mind, so make your own choices. Give up, and definitely fail, or try and maybe succeed. Your life, mate.

Everyone already knows I'm not interested in any form of relationship. I'm not what's important here, the validity of your advice is.

I didn't know that. Fair enough, that's your choice. Makes me wonder why are you posting on a thread for people who are interested though. As I keep saying, it's only what worked for me over a period of years, and I'm not claiming magical results for anyone else. If you're not interested in the subject, and have nothing to add except to say "it won't work, because it didn't work for me", then I wonder why you're still here. You've made your point.

I kind of have that--the cynicism, self-loathing and loathing of others. It's real tough to break out of that when you've gotten burned too many times. If people are nice to me and talk to me, I'll talk to them. Otherwise, I can't help but think people perceive me as snobbish sometimes because of the way I try to avoid them, but I'm not snobbish. I just don't really see a way around that. One thing I'm not going to do is be one of those happy-go-lucky types who craps sunshine. I'd be lying if I did that because I'm not exactly happy...

Maybe you're just convinced that your personality had more to do with it than your looks. When did I ever say I wasn't interested in the subject? I never once said "It won't work because it didn't work for me" not once.... you are starting to unravel a little bit here. You're falling apart credibility-wise. You're showing some serious mangina symptoms.

Maybe.... just maybe... some of the bitter people here WERE nice and kind and positive at one point in their lives.... and AFTER that didn't work for them.... they BECAME bitter. Is that possible maybe? That would mean that positivity failed them already.

First, you join this site and don't bother finding out about the long-time members or what they have said.

Then, you proclaim your greatness and tell us you have all the answers, and you tell us that we ought to be nice guys like yourself.

Then, you start insulting and attacking anyone who disagrees with you. Clearly we deserve it since we are not nice guys like yourself.

Then, you tell those same long-time members that they have no business being here because they don't accept you advice, and cannot equal your greatness. Only nice guys like yourself deserve to participate.

Thanks. You've certainly convinced me.

How about:





Not looking too hot yourself.



That's usually how it happens, and as I've said, that's their choice, which I respect. I just think that bitterness only leads to more bitterness, more failure, and cuts off any hope of happiness. I'm just trying to politely put the other side here. Is that OK with you?

Yep. Think I'm going to read people's post history, so I don't tread on anyone's toes? Sorry, I've got better things to do.



Show me where I proclaimed my greatness, please.



*sighs* Once again, from the starting post. I'll even put in bold for you:



What was that about not bothering to find out what people have said, again?



Again, show me where I said this, please.



Apart from what I said to Monkey, I think I've been pretty polite here. Can you show me where I've attacked people, please?



Again, show me where I said this, please... I've said that people can make their own choices in their own lives, and that they have to take some responsibility for the consequences. If people choose (and yes, it is a choice) to live their lives in self-loathing and emotional exile, then they have to take some ownership of the feelings of loneliness and disaffection that will come of it. Take what you want and pay for it.



Not really - just suggesting that saying the same thing again & again is a bit boring. No censorship, no "fuck-off-out-of-my-thread", just wondering what they're bringing to the party. And as far as I'm concerned, post counts ain't shit.



*yawns* show me where I said this, please...



I'm not trying to convince you of anything, just answer questions from people who want to ask them, based on my experiences. I don't think you are on this thread to be convinced, are you?

Ummm Jonathan.... you realize there is a difference between not having an interest in participating in a relationship, and having an interest in the general subject of romance/human mating patterns, right? I never once said I wasn't interested in the SUBJECT. You need to read more carefully.

Come on now.....

Plus.... feeling bitter isn't always a choice.... sometimes it's a result of things that have happened....

She never said no. I talked with her just fine, naturally actually. She made eye contact I made her laugh a little bit.

Ethno, does it matter if his looks played a role or not? You start sounding like Advanced. I thought you were a tall handsome muscular guy, and you don't have a girlfriend just because you don't care about the opposite sex.
Jonathan said he was love-shy. I think he also said he was (is?) overweight -- how's that for bad looks?
Now, he's not giving any new advice (at least for me), but the fact that he could get out of love-shyness without any magic trick or plastic surgery should, if anything, be encouraging. Also, I don't believe that a lot of people on here are downright ugly. I'm not the first to say that I know. But even Seb, who's allegedly so ugly that people die a painful death just by looking at him (of course if you believe the Incel Epic), is in fact not ugly in a sense that it can't be fixed. Okay, he looks weird on the photos, but his face is not deformed, he has no burns, he has his nose and eyes and ears with him. I suspect it's something psychological, rather than anatomical that drives women away.
So anyway, I guess I've got into too much trouble already. I usually try not to post in any threads that feature words like "ugliness" or "society" (as well as the threads started by certain people), but this is so hilarious I had to post. Somehow, the most active posters are so good at finding bad excuses that, perhaps, don't even apply to them and use them to drive away all the people who are trying to help. Just be constructive, guys. If you're really ugly -- and by that I mean someone like the person in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8D4S3pDjPiU -- than I agree nothing will help you. But in that case, Ethnocide, I don't think you'd be a die-hard weightlifter.