I'll agree with you. It's not that beautiful women could be incel -- they won't even if really wanted that. I don't know any example I know (for starters, I don't know any beautiful women ). But a quick sweep through okcupid, for example, gives a a lot of gorgeous girls with a "single" status. Now, they might be having one-nighters in the meantime, but hope you'd agree with me it's not a real relationship. Also, I've read somewhere (maybe it was here? too lazy to search) that Tyra Banks finds it hard to find a boyfriend because men are just too scared to come up to her, she basically intimidates everyone with her looks (which I would believe). Now, I'd agree with you she's not the one to complain and she might have been outright lying, but still that's quite conceivable.

Ethnocide, why don't you put your photo online and we'll see how "ugly" you are?

OMFG, what's wrong with you guys?

How many posts do you have to read to know that Ethnocide doesn't seek a relationship? How many posts does one have to read? How much time would it take? If you really care for the newcomers to know the stories of the principal members, just write a concise bio for them and pin the topic!

Quotes, please!

The only person he attacked was darwin, and it's not that he didn't deserve it (although I would refrain from calling names on people even if they're being rude -- better to ignore them).

You've misused a universal quantifier here! He only said it only to ethnocide, and he didn't say that ethno doesn't have a a place here. He just asked him refrain from derailing the topic, essentially, since he's not interested in any advice on the "girl matter".
Jonathan, I hope you don't get upset about certain posters here.

Timid: There's no chance of me ever giving up my anonymity here. This website is my dirty little secret no one knows about, and for very specific reasons, I must keep it that way at all costs.

I am not tall and handsome, I am average height (6'1) and have a kind of ugly face. I have a decently muscular looking body. Most chicks do not seem to be attracted to me. Only a small few. Especially drunk chicks.

I actually encourage anyone to try Jonathan's advice, report back, tell me how it worked out. I don't think the people here are ugly either, but the final say on that isn't determined by only me, it's determined by the sum total of all the reactions from women guys get.

I am constructive, I give direct advice that will increase the attractiveness level of the men here. That is my constructive advice. Men here have tried the positivity route, it failed them. Men have tried being nice to girls. It failed them.

Why would being extremely ugly stop me from lifting weights though? I don't understand

...... Are you fucking dumb or something? I never said this, Grinsweeper did. Why does it say "Ethnocide wrote"?

That is understandable. I wouldn't deanonymize myself either.

Last time I checked, 6'1 was considered tall. In any case, you're taller than most of the chicks -- and I recon that's all they need.

I'm rather surprised to hear that, because -- correct me if I'm wrong -- you were the one who said that people on here should lift weights and take care of the body. Now you're saying this isn't working for you. Why advise it then?

The sad truth is that Jonathan doesn't really have any special advice. As far as I understand it, it's as simple as "try-don't take the rejection personally-repeat" and be positive during the whole process. I'd personally try that once I'm able to approach girls (which I'm working on).

Now the question is -- how do you know they react so based on the looks? I can't remember any stories on here of girls telling guys they are outright ugly.

I only remember your advice about weight training (which you get kudos for).

I am positive (or at least try to be when communicating), but if I'm a nervous wreck and can't utter a word, positiveness indeed won't work for me.

I linked to a video of a guy with progeria. That's my definition of uglyness. If you watch the video, you'll probably know what I meant.

Or something.

Sorry, I copied it from someone else's post. Was lazy to search for the original post. I hope you're not mad at me, are you?

The muscular body will work to attract SOME chicks. Dudes here don't need LOTS of chicks swooning over them, all it takes is one. The muscular body will open up access to some chicks who overlook ugly faces for nice bodies. That's what happened with me. I had ZERO interest before the muscles, SOME interest afterwards. All it takes is one good chick for these guys. Just one chick showing interest will help with realizing it's not hopeless for them. I think getting muscular would do this for the guys here, as none of them are extremely ugly, or have deformities. That's why I advertise it.

What did you do with the interest you got?

Ignored it, of course. Told them to stop touching me, left the party/bar, told them to walk away, avoided eye contact, the usual stuff women do to reject men I guess.

I know you said that you have no interest in relationships, but short of reading all your 2700+ posts to find the reason why, can you give a short reason? If you're getting interest, why not see where it leads?

Short reason: I've seen too many men's lives become fucked up due to women. I am an extremely sensitive person. One bad relationship could easily send me flying over the edge of sanity.


I could go on listing reasons, but that's the most important one.

Also... I don't really like the way women are in general. They usually don't have much integrity or honour. They just go with their impulses. They don't argue properly when emotions get involved, they speak over me, don't let me get a word in, don't want me to talk about certain things.... they are just drama machines.

Agreed

But this is bullshit.

Sorry, didn't reply to this interesting post due to getting involved in silly spats:



I think we agree on this, although coming from different directions. I'm all for being discriminating. Life is too short to chase every girl going. Not sure about value judgements, though - I'm not vain enough to that think not being attracted to me is a moral failing!



Once again, I agree - there's no point in going after women who clearly aren't interested in you. Keep bugging women who aren't interested, or hang out in the friendzone when you secretly want something more, and you deseve to be seen as all the things you listed.



Results in the dating game won't change if you don't decide to play. To continue the game metaphor, you can't lose if you don't play, but you sure as hell can't win either.



So they're shallow, manipulative and cynical. Would you want them as girlfriends anyway? Find the girl who isn't like that. They are around, I promise...



It's a fine line, this one. Buying a girl a drink to be social doesn't make you a doormat. Buying girls in a club many rounds of drinks, when they probably aren't interested, on the other hand, is lame. But what's the corollary of what you're saying? What should those (rather shallow) girls have done? Feigned interest in someone because he's buying them a drink? Stayed with him all night, hoping he'd buy them more? I think I know how many posters here would view that behaviour...



No, I don't agree on that point. What I said to you, I posted in anger (under provocation), and I regret it. I think it's better to try to maintain your own standards of behaviour and civility, and try to win people over through the quality of your ideas and arguments. I know I sound like this guy:



but I think it's true. Be the better man.

It's a fine distinction, and one I didn't pick up on from your posts. I'm not entirely convinced that you can be that interested in romance/relationships, and not, on some level (conscious or unconscious) think of yourself in one. It's a bit like being a vegan with a large collection of barbeque recipes Anyway, if you say you're not interested, I'll take you at your word.

This might sound cynical, but if women are showing interest, ever thought of playing along just to have a little fun? Doesn't mean you have to be their boyfriend, but if there's pleasure to be had... I dunno. It depends on you, your principles (which do seem pretty strong), and how highly you value sex/physical pleasure. Just a thought...



Feeling bitter can be a natural response to circumstances. I'm feeling it right now in relation to my job and my boss. Living with bitterness - letting the pain of the past define you and shape you in a way that makes the present difficult for you and unpleasant for the people around you - IS a choice. What's past, as Shakespeare said, is prologue.