split to not detract from Coyote's thread - ec

Just a word of caution: this line is generally going to viewed here as woman-speak for “I was busy chasing exciting bad boys during my 20s, but now that I am older I’m looking to settle down with a boring but sensitive guy.” Sorry, but that’s just the way it is.Wow, dude. Projecting much?I might be in the minority, but I think this is the worst possible thing to do to a love-shy.

The man in your story either likes you very much, or he doesn’t have the ability to say ‘no.’ I’m more inclined to believe that he likes you a lot, based on his “misty eyes” when you moved offices. He’s just terrified about making a move, or expressing interest, because he’s afraid of the ramifications. If you really are interested in pursuing something serious with this guy, you’ll have to gently steer him toward this goal. Rather than grabbing him and kissing him, I’d start off even slower. Have a pseudo-date in a park (or something that involves walking), and try to hold his hand. This will be much less of a shock to him compared to a surprise kiss, and will also let you know if he’s at all interested. Plus, I imagine from a woman’s perspective, having a guy rebuff holding your hand is probably less embarrassing than having a guy spurn a kiss. If he goes for the handholding, then work your way up physically and enjoy the ride as you hopefully breakthrough his emotional shell. If he doesn’t, then you’ll know a little more about him and his intentions.

One word of caution though: this guy is clearly a momma’s boy. There is a fair chance that even if you get to the level of boyfriend/girlfriend, you still might only be the #2 woman in his life. It’s not a guarantee, but she might find ways to inject herself into your life, and if this man has difficulty saying ‘no’ to his mom, then it could lead to problems. This isn’t meant to discourage you from pursuing him, but only to serve as a blueprint for things that could happen, and you should watch for the warning signs. Good luck!

um, I don't see where the projection here is. It's pretty much common knowledge that most men have way more intense romantic and sexual feelings for 20-something females than 40-somethings. There is an obvious evolutionary reasoning for this. Now we don't know for a fact if this is an issue with the guy in question (he could be gay for all we know), but their is a good chance it plays a factor How much exactly is anybody's guess.

Now maybe I'm just projecting myself because I'm 25, but the thought of being 45 and having a similar aged woman pursue me just depresses me, whereas the thought of being that age while having a 30-something woman come after me is satisfying but bittersweet, seeing has you already missed out on so much and she is possibly too young for their to be enough common interest for a relationship. Of course, I'm not a 45 year old with no experience, and frankly can't even see myself getting to that age without first either killing myself or skipping out of society altogether in some other way.

In the end I don't think there is any obvious advice for "coyote" simply because none of us really know what's going on inside this guy's head. Most of us are much younger and even if we were the same age, people have individual quirks and respond differently to the same things. He may love it if "coyote" became more aggressive and starting making out, or it might scare the shit out of him. Most guys here would probably love a girl making a move on them like that, but I consider it risky for a guy that age, who is probably used to routine and stability. Laplacian's advice is probably better, though I'd be careful of moving too slowly. Then again, maybe when you are that old moving slowly is better. Who knows.

Well, Mariska Hargitay is 47. If she came on to me, I'd be like, "Hell yeah!"

But most women in that age range are not attractive like that, so yeah he probably is wishing he solved his problem a long time ago. I know if I am in the same situation in 20 years, I will be even more fucking depressed than I am right now.

Sigourney Weaver is a GILF

Men may have more intense sexual feelings for 20-something females. I mean, most everyone, men and women, are generally at their peak physical attractiveness in their 20s. I disagree adamantly with the notion that romantic feelings are at their peak in the same demographic. SmoothRide seemed to be implying (or I inferred) that because this certain man missed out on dating and relationship experience (and the physical benefits contained therein) during his younger years that somehow love and romance at his age would be pointless. It’s akin to thinking that since I can’t have the experiences that everyone else had, then I’m going to pout and not even try. It’s never good, at any age, to compare your life history with those around you, because there will always be something to covet. It’s best to evaluate your own life and what you want from it.

I really think that this is the minority opinion, and that most love-shy men would welcome a relationship at most ages. It seems to me that most love-shy guys, if given the choice, would prefer a woman with exactly the same amount of dating and relationship experience, but also within the same age bracket (i.e., a 40-year-old virgin dude would probably prefer to have a relationship with a 38-year-old virgin lady over a 20-year-old virgin girl). Now obviously both scenarios would be unlikely to occur, but that doesn’t mean you can’t strive for that goal. Dating someone who was approximately your same age, and who only engaged in relations in the confines of a long-term relationship, seems completely reasonable to me, whereas dating someone who was ridden like the town bike seems incompatible. If given the choice, would you really rather have a quick fling with some hot 20-something strumpet, or a lasting relationship with someone maybe older?

well we've pretty much hi-jacked Coyote's thread which I didn't want to do, but she seems to have gone. Besides, I see your last post as the first real "volley of fire" in this debate...



are you saying that sexual feelings exist completely independent of romantic feelings? I find this to be unconvincing based on my experience. From an evolutionary perspective it makes sense that the two would be combined. Nature wants you to commit to a fertile woman so you will be motivated to commit to her and raise her many babies whilst providing resources. So yea, you will want to fuck her but you will also want to "love" her in that cheesy emo way that art fags write gay songs about. Not that I always turn to evolutionary biology to explain the mating game as many times they are just quacks, but this seems pretty basic common sense to me.

I also don't think we should just succumb to our more base biology, but at the same time I don't deny that as a human I'm basically an animal - a filthy, disgusting creature with primitive desire. I'm not some elitist intellectual who pretends to be above it all. Well I'm above some of it thanks to my logic, but I keep it within reason. Unlike say, ContentedMan, our resident GF, whom I come nowhere near.



While I agree with the principle of what you are saying, attraction is a critical part to any relationship and it has nothing to do with what other people are doing. Either you are attracted to somebody or you aren't. Ever since I've hit puberty, I've been attracted to 18 year olds to women roughly in their late 30's. I see no reason why this would change just because I myself am getting older. Some 40+ year olds are hot but they are a minority. Few women remain attractive after that, and even for those that do it pales in comparison to what they looked like in their 20's. You'd be constantly reminded of this every time you looked in her face. I can't see how this wouldn't be depressing - a stark reminder as to what you missed out on. It would kill your motivation to work at a successful long term relationship.





If you are going to talk about what "most love-shy men would want", you are going to need to cite sources. Even a poll would be better than nothing, however dumb they are. I'm love-shy and I honestly don't give a shit what kind of relationship experience a woman had, so long as she wasn't a doorknob. All I ask is that her sexual experience was mostly confined to men she had an emotional connection to, though I could make concessions based on circumstance. I think many love-shy's would even prefer a girl with more experience, because it'd mean she'd take the initiative, which to a love-shy is very desirable. Either way, I don't think many love-shy's think about age that much, but they do think about whether the woman is attractive. Younger women would likely be more desirable because on average they tend to be more attractive. This was certainly discussed by Gilmartin (/fuggles).



First off, why the massive dichotomy? Why is the girl in her "twenties" automatically the "town bike" and the older woman nice and chaste? I'd think a late 30 year old is far more likely to of been a "town bike" than an average 25 year old who hasn't had time to rack up that kind of erm, experience. Forget for a second about the concept of a slut in general though. If the goal is equivalent relationship experience, than a 35+ year old love-shy male is far more likely to find it with a 25 year old than a 35 year old female. Chances are good that the older woman has had AT LEAST two more long relationships than the younger woman. At that age, that can be significant because those relationships tend to be more serious, almost like marriage.

But to answer the question, I'd rather have a lasting relationship with someone that I'm attracted to physically, preferably while she still has several more years of attractiveness left, and all other factors are irrelevant. Yes, part of this is to enjoy a few years of copious unadulterated sexual fun with a hawt chick in her prime (I'm human, sue me), but everybody gets old and withered. It just happens much more quickly with a 38 year old than say, a 25 year old. The younger woman allows much more time for the relationship to evolve into something deeper, which provides a foundation for old age when the early "spark" of youthful attractiveness is gone. This is not a phase you can simply bypass, not without a lot of bitterness.

Hell, I'm 25 and already very bitter about how much I've missed, but I still have a decent amount of years to get a woman who has many years of attractiveness left. So I'm technically "salvageable", but 10 or 15 years from now I doubt that will be the case. At that point (if I haven't offed myself) a relationship with somebody my age could be preferable to loneliness, but it'd hardly be anything to get too excited about. You aren't going to be building a life with anybody at that age, seeing as you lack the shared experience.

I kinda have the same thought caldera does. Part of me wonders what the experience of bangin a smokin hottie would actually be like. I don't dwell for long though. Part of me also wonders what it's like to kill someone. Part of me also wonders what deep fried human meat tastes like.

Some things are better left as thoughts.

if all you wanted was to bang a smoking hottie you could probably do it for a thousand bucks. Maybe 2k. No way could you get away with those other things you mention for that price. Now getting a smoking hottie to love you for who you are - that's priceless. Or maybe it's not. As I've mentioned elsewhere I personally consider a large percentage of women age 15-35 "smoking hotties". Maybe that's just the deprivation speaking though...

I think that sexual feelings can easily exist completely independent of romantic feelings. We both went to college; we saw how certain people can go from person to person with no romantic connection. e_i-2 has mentioned how he was just another checkmark on that one chick’s sexual list. Men can frequent hookers and not grow attached to a particular one. This isn’t to say that all men can bone chicks and have no romantic feelings. Seemingly you are not one, and I’m sure as hell not one. I would need strong romantic feelings before anything sexual could occur. I also think that a lot of men develop sexually feelings for a particular person only after romantic feelings develop, which can happen at any age, but I’ll definitely grant that there needs to be a baseline attractiveness for that to occur.

If evolutionary biology were completely correct, there wouldn’t be any bad boys because every bad boy would fall deeply in love with their sexual mate, and thus would never leave to go hump other chicks. Something is wrong with that picture. Oh, and I’m that elitist intellectual who pretends to be is above it all.I think it would also be pointless to date someone you weren’t attracted to. It’s not fair to you, and it’s not fair to the person you are dating. Each person deserves to feel wanted, both physically and emotionally. That being said, I’ve always been attracted to my own age group. The idea of dating an 18-year-old just seems creepy to me. I fully acknowledge that I am in the vast minority here. There’s probably something wrong with my brain wiring. I don’t think you’ll look into someone’s eyes at a later age though and think of her past attractiveness. I think that, assuming you do find her attractive for her age, the romantic aspects of your relationship will be paramount. Otherwise, dating anyone over the age of 25 would be pointless, because it’s a slow downhill degradation of attractiveness for both men and women.Yeah, I shouldn’t say what “most love-shy men would want.” I should leave that up to e_i-2, the king of the love-shys (or whatever monkey said he was). I guess I was projecting my own beliefs. I don’t think I would ever make any concessions based on circumstances. Someone who values sex in the context of a long-term relationship would be more analytical and less impulsive than someone who quickly moved from partner to partner. Of course, this is my own personal bias, and people would probably assume I’m shaming male/female sexuality, but I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect someone to subscribe to the same moral beliefs that you do.I used the dichotomy to illustrate a point I guess. I think the main difference between our points of view is that you’re searching for a partner who you are, first and foremost, attracted to physically, and hoping that you two are compatible to the point that your relationship will last. I would be much more concerned with finding someone whom I can relate to mentality and emotionally, or what I commonly refer to as “finding someone chill.” To me, this is much more of a difficult task, because I think that most chicks have a beauty that I can be attracted to … especially if they can do calculus. I don’t care how attractive she is or how desirable a woman finds me, if she isn’t someone I find emotionally engaging and intellectual appealing in the ways I deem important (which may or may not be the same as yours, or in a different way). Luckily for me though, is that the things I primarily value (intelligence and “chillness”) usually don’t decrease with age, but become increasingly hard to find as those girls are quickly snatched up. I would much rather prefer to be in a relationship with someone in their late 30s who is absolutely chill but average attractiveness than with someone in their early 20s who is stunningly hot but just a moderately chill person. Even at my relatively young age, I would happily wait until that age if I could be guaranteed that I’d meet someone that chill. Basically what it boils down to is I’m picky picky picky picky, which as an ugly dude, I can’t afford to be. Rather than compromise my wants, I’ll stick to myself. Life is too short to be with someone you’re not absolutely crazy about solely because she’s hot.

Well, part of the problem is that I'm attracted to 18-21 year old girls, and I'm almost 28.

This is a problem, because the girls that are that age are attracted to muscle men/bad boy jocks, and since I don't fit into that stereotype, I'm not attractive to those girls. I would probably be more attractive to a girl my own age...but then again, I'm not as attracted to girls my own age.

I guess I just feel like I missed out on a lot, and want to make up for it. I DON'T want to end up like Sordini, and obsessing over banging 18 year olds when I'm in my 50's...but I'm starting to go down that path. And it scares me.

That's putting it rather kindly.

I would say "spent my 20s chasing hot guys and now that I am older and feel that biological clock ticking, I want to snare any guy I can that can provide for and help raise children. I don't actually care if the kids are really his or not, either." This is a very common attitude now given current illegitimacy rates of 25-33% and, given the recent DNA testing proof that the population is descended from twice as many women as men, probably has been for a very long time. We've just recently been able to prove these proclivities, though. DNA testing kind of shatters a lot of myths about women being "more virtuous" and "needing to be in love to have sex."

You might be surprised to know that women give birth to more children than men do.

How does that even make sense. For every woman who gives birth, a man has had to impregnate her until very recently with artificial insemination which still isn't used for the vast majority of conceptions. There aren't twice as many women living as men, ergo a lot of guys got played like fools.

A woman can have sex with many men but only 1 will impregnate her. She will always give birth to the child but not all the men that she has sex with will be related to it. This is simple biology that has been true for as long as there have been people.

I don't know if you know this, but civilization itself is an unnatural construct which has been built upon (at least the illusion of) monogamous relations. You don't have men willing to spend their days doing repetitive, boring shit to build it and to support a woman who fucks around on him and has other men's children. It just doesn't work that way.