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PostPosted: 20 Feb 2012, 04:04 
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canamoeba wrote:
Judaism is a religion, not an ethinicity.

It is both. And I've been told this by "Jews"

That's why you have "atheist jews" that are considered jewish by the jewish community.


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PostPosted: 20 Feb 2012, 06:07 
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New-Yorker wrote:
The point it to have the people you want to like you actually like you.

Yes but you are the one who calls all who want to look abroad "defeatist". Many here don't particularly want the average American woman to like them, they just want to find a decent woman somewhere.

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So, what if the best for me is to be respected by certain people and/or to attract certain women? And what if those women/people don't like/respect me at the moment for one reason or another? Are you suggesting that I should convince myself that those are not the people I want to be respected by, or those are not the women I want to attract? This may be true. But what if it's not, i.e. what if I objectively believe that it's best for me to be liked/respected by those people?

Here I agree with you. You do what you want, but don't criticize others for thinking differently.

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fschmidt wrote:
Because Islamic society isn't evil. My question has nothing to do with us versus them.

Of course it's not. Violence against the wicked America on 9/11/01 does not make them evil at all. Neither does their violence against the Jewish state, which you obviously don't care about.

I can see the rational for both these actions from the Islamic side. America killed lots of Muslims in the (first) Iraq war and has generally meddled in Islamic countries where it had no business. As for Israel, this is simply a land conflict where both sides have plausible arguments.

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Evil for one single reason - rejecting you. For the vast majority of people, it's somehow not evil.

No, you obviously didn't read the rest of my post before responding to this. The vast majority of Americans are evil, so of course they get along with each other.

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And the vast majority of men who do marry in America are dishonest, unintelligent, and put up with bullshit? This sounds more like your personal agenda.

Yes, and I am not the only one who thinks this way. Take a look around Happier Abroad for others who share my view.

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Of course, you have no answer on this one.

If you want to discuss a different topic, make a separate post so as not to confuse the issue.

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Somehow, America maintains itself as a home for the largest Jewish Orthodox community outside of Israel. Doesn't feel like an evil country.

America was a very good country at the time that the Orthodox settled here, so they made a reasonable choice. But America has changed dramatically. It's much the same story as in Germany which was one of the most tolerant societies towards Jews before Hitler. Societies change.

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Unfortunaely... But which culture doesn't? Mexican?

And name the country with no harmful imagery whatsoever.

There are no really good cultures these days, but America generates more bad imagery than any other country. As for worshiping false gods, that is nearly universal.

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fschmidt wrote:
3. Don't misuse God's name.
Modern religion does this all the time.


And what does that have to do with America? A case can be made about the phrase on the dollar bill, but the original purpose of this phrase was to present America as a country of believers.

America definitely wins the grand prize for misusing God's name. At least Europe doesn't misuse God's name since they are atheists, and the Orient doesn't have much to do with God at all. But Americans constantly proclaim all kinds of bullshit in God's name and is fairly unique in that.

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fschmidt wrote:
4. Keep the Sabbath.
Silly Jews think this only applies to them, but when Christians kept their Sabbath on Sunday, they had morality. You cannot have morality without taking a break from the world.


Yes, Sabbath has been given to the "silly" Jews whom you have betrayed. But if you lived in Germany in those years, the Nazis would treat you just like any other "dirty Jew", and your Catholic wife wouldn't be able to change that (even if she wanted to). And to your bullshit about how Christians "kee" "their" Sabbath on Sunday, can you explain how they are keeping it? In what way is Sunday for Christians different from any other day, other than because they go to church on Sunday? And where's that morality that is unique to Chirstians but not possessed by the Jews?

You are putting all kinds of words in my mouth. I never said that any morality "is unique to Chirstians but not possessed by the Jews". I also didn't say that Christians keep the Sabbath, I said that they used to keep it (in the past) and since they lost this, they become immoral. Here is a passage from De Tocqueville on how the Sabbath was kept when America was still moral:

------------------------------------------
In the United States, on the seventh day of every week, the trading and working life of the nation seems suspended; all noises cease; a deep tranquility, say rather the solemn calm of meditation, succeeds the turmoil of the week, and the soul resumes possession and contemplation of itself. Upon this day the marts of traffic are deserted; every member of the community, accompanied by his children, goes to church, where he listens to strange language which would seem unsuited to his ear. He is told of the countless evils caused by pride and covetousness: he is reminded of the necessity of checking his desires, of the finer pleasures which belong to virtue alone, and of the true happiness which attends it. On his return home, he does not turn to the ledgers of his calling, but he opens the book of Holy Scripture; there he meets with sublime or affecting descriptions of the greatness and goodness of the Creator, of the infinite magnificence of the handiwork of God, of the lofty destinies of man, of his duties, and of his immortal privileges. Thus it is that the American at times steals an hour from himself; and laying aside for a while the petty passions which agitate his life, and the ephemeral interests which engross it, he strays at once into an ideal world, where all is great, eternal, and pure.
------------------------------------------

Quote:
And how about rampant crime in some areas of your beloved Mexico?

Mexico is not an example of a moral culture either.

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fschmidt wrote:
7. Don't commit adultery.
America rewards women for committing adultery. Modern society is totally pro-adultery.


Again, name the culture that doesn't. Or, to be more specific, name the country that actively stands against it.

No country that I know of rewards adultery as much as America does. Most countries are simply neutral on this. But Orthodox Jews in Israel are actively against adultery as are most Muslim countries.

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Don't tell me that other countries don't [support theft]. Especially Russia in the early '90's.

Yes Russia is very bad in this way, but is much less bad than America regarding adultery

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fschmidt wrote:
10. Don't covet other people's stuff.
America is driven by coveting. That drives consumerism.


Can you offer any better way of doing business?

Yes I can. America was originally based on the Protestant ethic which valued honesty and plain living. Read The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism to see how modern capitalism was developed by honest hardworking people, not covetous lowlifes.

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Somehow, the vast majority of men in America are not deprived of a wife

This is a baseless statement since you have no way of knowing how many men are single by choice.

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It appears to me that physical annihilation of human beings was the only tragedy of the Holocaust. Apparently, you have no sensitivity to the other side of it: the Jewish nation faced a threat of extinction. And this is something the assimilation (including your own intermarriage) effectively leads to - without endangering anyone's life. That's what I mean by saying that you've destroyed your link in the Jewish continuity.

I spent some time studying Jewish history while I attended the Orthodox synagogue. And based on this, I have given up on Judaism. Judaism has split into 2 groups. One is liberal Judaism which is no different from other forms of liberal and is basically pure evil, will be assimilated, and has no future. The other is Hasidic Judaism which completely rejects reason and generally attracts the least intelligent Jews. Hasidic Judaism isn't much different from Islam. Islam also went through a similar split in the Abbasid period. At that time, Islam was by far the world's best culture, but this split left us with modern Islam which is quite pathetic. Judaism has a similar future. The center of Judaism has not held. Hasidic Judaism will take over all of Orthodox Judaism eventually. This is too bad since Judaism used to be a great culture and the Hebrew Bible is by far my favorite book. But this isn't my fault and I have to deal with reality. So I went back to the Greek Orthodox Church and I am doing my best to push "Old Testament" values there.

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PostPosted: 20 Feb 2012, 19:47 
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To the question if I favor plastic surgery, I'm not sharing the belief that all our dating woes come from bad looks. That's Advanced and Mesian (a.k.a. "Picky picky"). However, if someone has a strong notion that his individual obstacle is looks-related, then yes, I would say it's for him to at least look into such an option, although I would not encourage him to jump into it without being 100% sure that this is The root of his trouble.

As for fschmidt's comparison of contemporary America with pre-war Germany, it's one of the favorit psychological tricks of those who advocate for mass emigration American Jews to Israel. Obviously, their agenda has nothing to do with fschmidt's one, but it's amazing how they both rely on this unfounded parallel. (Don't get me wrong. Israel needs people, and those who move there do a nice thing; but that should not be imposed on the Diaspora communities because they need people as well, especially if there's no imminent physical danger). The comparison itself, however, has no historic basis. First, the claim that Germany was tolerant is far-fetched. It might be relatively tolerant in late 19th to earlier 20th century, but it has its share of anti-Semitism during the Middle Ages. Regarding the America of the times where Jews first settled here, the historic reality dictates that it wasn't as rosy as you would like to believe. Sabbath observance required the tremendous heroism on behalf of those who were willing to lose job after job because of not reporting to work on Saturday. At the previous turn of century, the town of Lakewood NJ [now heavily populated with the community of Torah learners] used to have a sign "No Jews; No Dogs". The reason for this, I believe, was that the American of those years consisted of the White European majority (which still had the sentiments of prejudice brought from their old countries) and the Black minority. Just as the discrimination against Blacks was legal and rampant, there was nothing illegal about discrimination against Jews as well. And the reason why so many Jewish immigrants came in during those years is only because the grim reality American life was still better than the risk of physical persecution in Europe. The major difference in today's American society is that it has become too heterogenerous to allow one ethnic or religous group to discriminate against any other. Such discrimination has also become illegal. So, why America is, unfortunately, not fully immune from hate crimes, mass violence, and even police inaction, it is still pretty much immune from officially mandating a genocide in a manner that was done in Germany by the Nazis. This, plus the overall unwillingness to change the existing pattern, makes such a turn of event extremely unlikely, especially with current demographics.

As for your statements that most Americans are evil, it's too irratitonal to be taken seriously. You're bitter, and that's the whole point. Same holds true for Winston Wu and his followers.


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PostPosted: 20 Feb 2012, 19:52 
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fschmidt wrote:
New-Yorker wrote:
And don't tell us that Latin American countries are as developed and civilized as North America. According to news, crime in Mexico is rampant, at least in some locations. So, before anyone goes there, how about getting some idea of what's safe and what's not...

Yes Latin American countries are less developed and civilized than North America or than Nazi Germany was. When culture turns bad, being less developed is an advantage in that the bad culture can't be fully implemented and enforced. Crime in Mexico is rampant in some locations, like in Juarez, which is why I never set up a dating service where I live. But most of Mexico is fine. I traveled through Mexico with my family 2 years ago without problems. Obviously the guy selected for this should have enough common sense to avoid the worst areas.


You know, these are the two quotes that really bother me in this thread.


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PostPosted: 20 Feb 2012, 22:42 
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fschmidt wrote:
Yes Russia is very bad in this way, but is much less bad than America regarding adultery


You must be two or three decades behind.


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PostPosted: 20 Feb 2012, 22:53 
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canamoeba wrote:
Judaism is a religion, not an ethinicity.


Then how come Hitler was killing anybody who has Jewish blood, even those who were baptized?
Or, since you're denying the Jewish claim for the Land of Israel, are you also denying the Holocaust?


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PostPosted: 20 Feb 2012, 23:00 
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New-Yorker wrote:
canamoeba wrote:
Judaism is a religion, not an ethinicity.


Then how come Hitler was killing anybody who has Jewish blood, even those who were baptized?
Or, since you're denying the Jewish claim for the Land of Israel, are you also denying the Holocaust?

Pointing to Hitler's or the Nazis' actions is a cheap shot. (Think about it another way: Hitler believed Judaism was an ethnicity. Does that mean he's right? He was one of the worst people in human history!)

I'm not denying the Holocaust. However, if Jews hadn't been so barbaric and thoughtless as to permanently mutilate the genitals of their boys at birth, maybe more Jewish men would have been able to hide their Jewish status and save their lives from the Nazis, because no one can tell from your face/skin color/etc. that you're Jewish. (The Nazis could do it by other methods, but some Jews might have been able to cheat at them.)

But it's way more obvious than that: anyone who agrees with the fundamentals of Judaism can convert to Judaism and become Jewish by going through a certain process. Same for Islam, Christianity, etc That's a characteristic of a religion. However, no one can "become" Chinese if they aren't.


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PostPosted: 21 Feb 2012, 11:48 
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So fschmidt is an atheist (although he'll insist that he's a pantheist) but he looks to the Ten Commandments as a paragon of morality. He also mistakes the Torah for the Tanakh. Again.

Considering he's an atheist, it's a little odd that he's pissed about the breaking of commandments #1-4, which have absolutely nothing to do with morality but more to do with worshiping a tyrant.

Oh fschmidt, you never cease to surprise me with your unique brand of insanity. Post more around the forums, please.


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Salome wrote:
fschmidt wrote:
New-Yorker wrote:
And don't tell us that Latin American countries are as developed and civilized as North America. According to news, crime in Mexico is rampant, at least in some locations. So, before anyone goes there, how about getting some idea of what's safe and what's not...

Yes Latin American countries are less developed and civilized than North America or than Nazi Germany was. When culture turns bad, being less developed is an advantage in that the bad culture can't be fully implemented and enforced. Crime in Mexico is rampant in some locations, like in Juarez, which is why I never set up a dating service where I live. But most of Mexico is fine. I traveled through Mexico with my family 2 years ago without problems. Obviously the guy selected for this should have enough common sense to avoid the worst areas.


You know, these are the two quotes that really bother me in this thread.


Yeah, I know what you mean.

First off, comparing Mexico,to all of Latin-America is a huge mistake, in far too many ways to list here.

Secondly, I don't see Latin-America armed with a huge arsenal of robotic drones, and more on the way, ready to
kill anyone they dont like, as the US does, and invading oil-rich Arab counties, using state of the art technology.

If I were not involved is other activities, I would be ex-pating out of this fascist shit-hole, nation right now.

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oncebitten55 wrote:
Salome wrote:
fschmidt wrote:
New-Yorker wrote:
And don't tell us that Latin American countries are as developed and civilized as North America. According to news, crime in Mexico is rampant, at least in some locations. So, before anyone goes there, how about getting some idea of what's safe and what's not...

Yes Latin American countries are less developed and civilized than North America or than Nazi Germany was. When culture turns bad, being less developed is an advantage in that the bad culture can't be fully implemented and enforced. Crime in Mexico is rampant in some locations, like in Juarez, which is why I never set up a dating service where I live. But most of Mexico is fine. I traveled through Mexico with my family 2 years ago without problems. Obviously the guy selected for this should have enough common sense to avoid the worst areas.


You know, these are the two quotes that really bother me in this thread.


Yeah, I know what you mean.

First off, comparing Mexico,to all of Latin-America is a huge mistake, in far too many ways to list here.

Secondly, I don't see Latin-America armed with a huge arsenal of robotic drones, and more on the way, ready to
kill anyone they dont like, as the US does, and invading oil-rich Arab counties, using state of the art technology.

If I were not involved is other activities, I would be ex-pating out of this fascist shit-hole, nation right now.


You are so right about that. In fact, that is the reason why I really don't care to work for a defense - based aerospace company. It just seems like ever since Vietnam, wars have been conducted by corporations, not by nations or governments.





http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sky_Crawlers_%28film%29

And, in the end, peace suffers, humanity is set waay back, and technological and scientific advancement is curbed.

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PostPosted: 21 Feb 2012, 20:14 
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canamoeba wrote:
Pointing to Hitler's or the Nazis' actions is a cheap shot.


Tell this to fschmidt; he's the one who brings this up more often than anyone.

canamoeba wrote:
However, if Jews hadn't been so barbaric and thoughtless as to permanently mutilate the genitals of their boys at birth, maybe more Jewish men would have been able to hide their Jewish status and save their lives from the Nazis, because no one can tell from your face/skin color/etc. that you're Jewish. (The Nazis could do it by other methods, but some Jews might have been able to cheat at them.)


The quote in bold is one part of the answer. The second part of the answer is that the Jews do what God commanded them millenia ago. The following may sound defeatist, but it [the fact that this happened to be the critical feature by which some men were identified by Nazis as Jewish] does not eliminate this commandment. As for why God allowed this to happen, no mortal can answer that question but we can be assured that, if we every angle is considered (including afterlife and reincarnation, if you want), it's all part of the All-Good master plan.

canamoeba wrote:
But it's way more obvious than that: anyone who agrees with the fundamentals of Judaism can convert to Judaism and become Jewish by going through a certain process. Same for Islam, Christianity, etc That's a characteristic of a religion. However, no one can "become" Chinese if they aren't.


I can't disagree with this one. But you still have to admit that the majority of the Jewish people happen to be descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

Unrequited Lust wrote:
So fschmidt is an atheist (although he'll insist that he's a pantheist) but he looks to the Ten Commandments as a paragon of morality. He also mistakes the Torah for the Tanakh. Again.


I agree that fschmidt at times contradicts himself. But as for confusing between Torah and Tanakh, there's no basis for confusion, because the wider meaning of the worlds "Torah" includes not only the Pentateuch but also the entire Tanakh, as well as the Oral tradition.


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New-Yorker wrote:
Unrequited Lust wrote:
So fschmidt is an atheist (although he'll insist that he's a pantheist) but he looks to the Ten Commandments as a paragon of morality. He also mistakes the Torah for the Tanakh. Again.

I agree that fschmidt at times contradicts himself. But as for confusing between Torah and Tanakh, there's no basis for confusion, because the wider meaning of the worlds "Torah" includes not only the Pentateuch but also the entire Tanakh, as well as the Oral tradition.

In any case, the ten commandments are in the Pentateuch, so Unrequited Lust has no idea what he is talking about.

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Unrequited Lust wrote:
Considering he's an atheist, it's a little odd that he's pissed about the breaking of commandments #1-4, which have absolutely nothing to do with morality but more to do with worshiping a tyrant.

Unrequited Lust represents modern man, not understanding history, religion, or morality. Machiavelli understood all 3 and, in "Discourses on Livy", rightly said:

"whoever considers well Roman history will see how much Religion served in commanding the armies, in reuniting the plebs, both in keeping men good, and in making the wicked ashamed."

"And as the observance of divine institutions is the cause of the greatness of Republics, so the contempt of it is the cause of their ruin, for where the fear of God is lacking it will happen that that kingdom will be ruined or that it will be sustained through fear of a Prince, which may supply the want of Religion. And because Princes are short lived, it will happen that that Kingdom will easily fall as he (Prince) fails in virtue. Whence it results that Kingdoms which depend solely on the virtue of one man, are not durable for long, because that virtue fails with the life of that man, and it rarely happens that it is renewed in (his) successor"
http://www.constitution.org/mac/disclivy1.htm#1:11

"The Princes of a Republic or a Kingdom ought therefore to maintain their Republic's religions, and in consequence well and united. And therefore they ought in all things which arise to foster it (even if they should judge them false) to favor and encourage it: and the more prudent they are, and the more they understand natural things, so much more ought they to do this. And because this practice has been observed by wise men, there has arisen the beliefs in the miracles that are celebrated in Religion, however false; for the prudent ones have increased (their importance) from whatever origin they may have derived and their authority gives them credence with the people."
http://www.constitution.org/mac/disclivy1.htm#1:12

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fschmidt wrote:
So New-Yorker, I suspect that as Jew in Nazi Germany, you would have had trouble dating German women.

If his goal was to find a Jewish girl to date, he would have avoided dating German (non-Jewish) women regardless of whether he lived in Germany during the Nazi Holocaust era or not.

If New-Yorker (or anyone else for that matter) were a Jew in Nazi Germany, I would think that finding a suitable girlfriend would have been the least of his worries.

fschmidt wrote:
I don't see any difference between a Jew in Nazi Germany and someone like me in America.

Nobody in America is loading you into a cattle car to be shipped off to a death camp like Auschwitz to be killed in a gas chamber or oven.


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PostPosted: 21 Feb 2012, 20:56 
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nookie monster wrote:
fschmidt wrote:
So New-Yorker, I suspect that as Jew in Nazi Germany, you would have had trouble dating German women.

If his goal was to find a Jewish girl to date, he would have avoided dating German (non-Jewish) women regardless of whether he lived in Germany during the Nazi Holocaust era or not.

If New-Yorker (or anyone else for that matter) were a Jew in Nazi Germany, I would think that finding a suitable girlfriend would have been the least of his worries.

fschmidt wrote:
I don't see any difference between a Jew in Nazi Germany and someone like me in America.

Nobody in America is loading you into a cattle car to be shipped off to a death camp like Auschwitz to be killed in a gas chamber or oven.

I countered this affirmation a while ago, and will do it again:

Being a guy "like us" in America/Canada is like being a Black in Apartheid-era South Africa.

The comparison with Nazi Germany is an insult to anyone who survived or lost family members in the Holocaust.


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