We create and recreate ourselves throughout our entire lives, both in the biological sense and the psychological sense. It would make sense to me that a god that created us in his own image also created itself. Of course, this is nothing but speculation on my part.

Good question, but same could be said of the big bang. What caused it, what was there before it? What was there before that? What is beyond the edge of the universe? The human mind is incapable of understanding the concept of infinity or nothingness that I believe those questions should remain unexplored as they will always have another question behind it like a five year old constantly asking 'why?' to every answer his mother gives.

Not really, because from the theistic viewpoint everything needs an ultimate creator... (hence "God did it") even though god itself from the theistic viewpoint is as always was, and always will be.

No one knows happened "before" the big bang, even if there was a "before" as time could be a result of the big bang rather than a parameter. I'm perfectly fine with saying I don't know. I don't know doesn't mean I autmomatically default to an all knowing omnipresent supernatural creator. It just leaves the question open, just like any other thing we don't know.

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." - Dr. Carl Sagan

"Faith is not a pathway to truth." - Matt Dillahunty, host of "The Atheist Experience"


Two great books I've recently read that challenge silly religious beliefs:

50 REASONS PEOPLE GIVE FOR BELIEVING IN A GOD - Guy P. Harrison

ATHEIST UNIVERSE: THE THINKING PERSON'S GUIDE TO CHRISTIAN FUNDAMENTALISM - David Mills

While I support eveyone's right to believe and worship whomever or whatever they want, I also try to encourage free thinking and keeping an open mind. My problem with religion (other than the supernatural claims made by various bibles and other religious doctrines) is the attitudes of most believers.

"If you don't believe in my god then you will be punished forever after you die!" (No evidence whatsoever)

When hundreds of people are killed in natural disasters, the religious survivors always say,
"By the grace of God I was saved."
Why do you deserve God's grace but not the people who perished? (Don't say it's because you believed in a god and they didn't. 97% of Americans believe in God. Six million Jews believed in God during WWII).

While I would never claim to have all the answers to the mystery of life, I do believe that science is teaching us more every day. In 100 years, we'll know even more (too bad most of us won't be around to witness it).

I just try to treat people the way I would want to be treated, without threats of eternal damnation.

A great documentary - "Jesus Camp" (2006) - about children who go to a Bible study camp run by a religious zealot woman - reveals how evil Christianity can be. I nearly wept as I watched these impressionable, innocent kids having their childhood robbed from them by this parasite of a woman as she threatens them with pain and suffering if they don't believe in Jesus. If ever there was a case of child abuse caught on film, this is it.

Unfortunately, being an atheist is probably another reason why I'll never have a woman in my life. I know there are atheist women in the world, but the average woman wants a guy who believes in a god and goes to church on a regular basis. Since I don't believe in organized religion, that already counts me out. (Of course, not having money or good looks doesn't help my situation either )

Forty-Two.

You're the one who asked the question and I gave you...well, not exactly an answer...but a counter question. Many theists seem okay to believe that God has always existed and feel no need to question it and get bogged down in the problem of infinity/nothingness. Many would be okay with saying that they don't know. However, many would also wish to defend their faith because you are questioning it and they would attempt to give you an answer. That answer would just be pathetic and make them look even more idiotic. Unfortunately, they bring this on themselves because, as I said before, faith does not require proof, yet they feel compelled to give it and come up with some extreme bullshit.

At the end of the day, faith, for most people, is a comfort. I for one, don't think I could live knowing that this is all there is. It all seems pointless. I was thinking about this today while watching Star Trek and wondered how the Vulcans got to be where they are. What is the logic in designing new technology? What is the logic in exploring the universe? And ultimately, what is the logic behind continuing to live? According to science, we will all die and entropy will eventually take it's course.
I understand that science has given us some wonderful innovations, but for what purpose? Curiosity? At least with religion, we can believe that there is something out there that we don't fully understand and could be our purpose. It can give a life some (if even only a tiny amount) of meaning. For me to believe that we are here by a mere fluke of nature is very depressing.
Yes, that is a selfish and arrogant belief, but we all want to feel like we matter. Religion is a way of expressing that. And yes, there are those who take it too far and those who try to force their beliefs on others, but they are few compared to the majority who are content.

Just curious, The Doctor... what do you think of the notion of finding/creating your own purpose in life (i.e., as opposed to finding it in something else, like religion)? This has been a key concern for me recently, and I'd be interested to hear what you (or anyone else) has to say.

Yup, I'm all for it. my life's goal is to complete my series of books. However, in the end, it won't mean a damn thing. It's still just a mortal's desire.

Well, you can take Ethnocide's stance that nothing means anything in the long run, but it does to you.

In my estimation, that is all that matters, dont you think, Doctor?

You may be mortal, but your books may well go on long after we are all gone, correct?

I think my view on the matter is in some ways like each of yours, and in some ways different. I can perhaps best summarize my feeling as follows:

A life need not last forever to be meaningful. Neither do our accomplishments lose any ultimate merit if they lack the mark of eternity. The creation of even a single moment, a single isolated essence of value that is annihilated all too readily with everything else in time--such a creation will always stand forth wonderfully as something that was. While the worthwhile thing itself may end, nothing could ever take away the truth that it was something you gave, that it managed to make some sort of difference, and that reality and its life-course as a whole has thus been made more beautiful.

I like how you put that better then I ever could. Bravo!

Nothing lasts forever in this universe, that I am aware of.

All any of us can do is the best we can. At least we tried.

Yeah, humans have ego's and that is why we do what we do.

Or not.

Well,I now come here and debate.
People are complaining about the war on Open Forum.

Sure. I have thought long and hard about it. From what is easily observed, nothing does mean anything in the long run except your own happiness, and even that is debatable. It's a selfish thought, but it's all that you know there is. While my books may last forever, even that means nothing. It is something to work towards, but I think to myself, what if I didn't have that? What if I had no ambitions? What then is my purpose?

Sure it may be deluded to have spiritual beliefs for comfort, but It's not something I suddenly believed. There is evidence enough out there that suits me. I could be grasping at straws with some things, but I don't care. It is a personal thing that I will never attempt to force on anyone, nor criticise others for theirs.

God our LORD does exist.

There are much evidence to support the faith,especially the Jewish people and Israel and historical evidence.For example,the Assyrian troops were killed by a sudden plague when they sieged Jerusalem.

Oh please. That is NOT evidence. It is mere coincidence. That kind of circumstantial evidence is NEVER allowed in a court of law to prove anything. Do not use it to 'prove' your beliefs.