Okay. I think I've found another problem with you guys. Too many of you are Stacy chasers.

A Stacy is the female equivalent of a Chad. A typical Stacy is totally "normal" in every way. She's super confident because she has no difficulty being normal. A typical Stacy listens to whatever music is popular and keeps up with the latest fashion trends instead of creating her own unique style. A typical Stacy, much like a typical Chad, is a normie sheep who only likes normal things.

When people talk to one another, they usually talk about stuff that they are interested in. This is true for people who are looking for sex as well as people who are looking for friendship.

This brings me to love-shyness. In my opinion, most love-shy men are just talking to the wrong sort of woman. When a man is too nervous to talk to a woman, it usually means that he doesn't know what to say. If you don't know what to say to a woman, it almost always means that you don't share any interests ... or you don't even know what she's into because she's just a random hawt broad and you never bothered to listen to her.

You guys seriously need to find a woman who shares some interests with you. That shouldn't be too hard. The sports thread on this site has been stickied, indicating that quite few guys here are into sports.

Imagine a sliding scale of weirdness. 0 on this scale is normie stuff. 10 is for the weirdest of weird shit. Sports is a 0 on this scale, unless you're into something really weird like curling or lacrosse. You should have no difficulty finding a girl who likes sports. Tell her about you favorite team. Tell her about your favorite sporting memories. Ask her about her favorite team.

I just took a short break from typing this to check out the other sticky threads. Most of the music that you guys like is actually pretty popular and normal.

My two favorite bands are Mastodon and Tin Hat. Tin Hat is an obscure chamber music band that nobody really cares about. Mastodon is an uber-manly band with almost no female fans. You guys should, logically, have an easier time than me. You guys certainly have greater potential than me. I really mean that. You guys are into music that normal women have heard of.

The gaming thread on this site reveals that most people here are into realistic games with a serious tone. In other words, most people on this site like normie games for normal people. How hard is it to find a girl who likes these games? It's actually not hard at all.

I'm going to assume that you guys aren't lying to me or lying to yourselves. I'm going to assume that you are embracing what you truly enjoy instead of forcing yourself to enjoy what you don't truly enjoy. If that is the case, I must be the weirdest and nerdiest person on this site. You guys have far greater maximum potential than I do ... so you must be doing something very wrong.

Have you guys been chasing after random hawt women who you know nothing about? Is that the problem?

One last thing: Don't tell me "All of the women who love the same stuff that I love are ugly." If you think that way then you aren't love-shy. You are lust-shy. If you judge a woman based on her physical appearance, that it lust, not love.

What if we just enjoy what we like independent of who else may like it?

You know that I'm trying to give you dating advice right? Isn't that what this site is all about? ... or is this just a site where men hypocritically complain about how women with the biggest, firmest titties are shallow?

See? This explains my entire post history. This explains why I keep losing my temper. This is so fucking frustrating.

If you want o to adjust your entire persona to be accepted by unimpressive women, be my guest. I'm not in the mood for referring to all your childish assumptions and strawmen, but most of us are not chasing supermodels. Today women are so unwilling to make the tiniest effort to improve that is not worth to try. I got tired of looking for girls with my interests, so, for now, I can enjoy them by myself.

So ... you've gone MGTOW?

If so, this thread isn't aimed at you.

Maybe some of us need lust to be happy. I've fallen in love when there's no lust and I realize I don't want sex from the girl, I just want to kiss and cuddle. If she got into a relationship with me, that could get weird at some point. So I look for someone I can feel a deep emotional attachment to and a lustful desire to bone her brains out. To me, that's what the ideal love is. Is it a bit picky? Sure. But if your libido is really that intense, and you date someone who does not resonate with your libido, that's going to be unhealthy too. You will still experience out of control desires for other people and feel unfulfilled at home. For me, lust is a key part of the equation with love, it is not to be discarded as a mere bothersome superficial side effect. And yes, it's more important to me than sharing common interests. I can always get that from friends and such.

Good post. And a prime reason why the aforementioned advice is largely ineffective.

1) it assumes we are all chasing super models. I can't speak for everyone else, but I'm not into model-type women; too skinny and high maintenance. Only the chads on the bodybuilding forums or PUAs feel the need to be that discriminating.

2) it assumes that our personalities are somehow inferior. It's true that some people here may be shy, or otherwise socially awkward, but to be fair we are not compulsively driven to lie, be rude and play mind games to the point where it is unpleasant to interact with us. Women don't like dealing with shy/awkward men because it exposes them to the same vulnerabilities (rejection for example) as men. Equality my ass.

3) It assumes that mainstream interests are better than alternative/niche interests. I'm an athletic guy who bikes 50+ miles a week, can out-grapple men 100 pound heavier than myself and I still have working knees. Why would I want to watch assholes on TV get paid to do what I like to do for free? Not to mention that women won't care if you like the same sports/teams as them if they aren't physically attracted to you. Regarding games; no woman I've ever met, plays the kind of games I'm into. Most find them too complicated. For the record, my ex rejected EVERY single activity I suggested due to her own insecurities and boring nature.

Herein lies the joke. We're being given advice on how to become more appealing to women, who are convinced that they can sit on their asses, expect (demand) that we adapt our personalities and interests to suit them, while not putting forth any effort of their own. They make the interaction as boring and one-sided as humanly possible then expect us to pay for the date. 99% of the time, we don't even get any sex for our trouble; which (whether the Disney fuckers on here want to hear it or not) is THE key reason we took them on a date in the first place.

Sorry Catapult, but advice like yours is why MGTOW exists in the first place. You're basically telling us to change ourselves (into something we don't want to be) to make ourselves appealing enough to be "eligible" for a raw deal. No one here is chasing Stacies. We're trying to meet women who are enjoyable to be around and at least somewhat physically attractive (by our own standards). It would be nice if people could actually make that distinction.

First of all, women don't like shy guys because shy guys are boring.

The rest of this post is confusing. You've gone into a rant about how you don't want to change your behavior ... but you are on a site aimed at men who are sexually and romantically desperate.

Isn't that the whole point of this site? If you guys weren't desperate, you wouldn't be here. You'd be on a more mainstream dating site.

There are two main kinds of dating advice sites on the internet. About half of the dating advice sites give right-wing "red pilled" advice like "work out" and "don't degrade yourself by dating a fat fuck". On the other hand, we have the SJW-approved sites that say "Just respect women. That's all there is to it."

Most people here already know about the "jock model" and the "male feminist model". Most of the guys hare have tried everything, and nothing seems to be working. Isn't that the whole point of this site?

You say that you don't want to change you behavior. Don't you want to gat laid? You have to change your behavior if you want to get laid. That's a fact. If you are going to go MGTOW, then that's fine ... but why use this site if you have gone MGTOW?

I can understand why MGTOW used to use this site ... but now the admins are cracking down on the overt misogyny that used to be common here. As a result, there is no reason for a MGTOW to use this site anymore.

I left this site earlier this year because the admins grew tired of my politically incorrect sense of humor, but I came back because I've decided that I want to give helpful advice instead of acting like a /b/tard.

Women don't have to change their behavior? Who says? There are a lot of women who have to change their behavior in order to get laid. If a woman wants to get laid, she often has to lose some weight, stop talking about her period and cool it with the misandrist humor.

Of course, making these sorts of demands isn't a good idea if you are desperate, like most guys here. What if you make those demands and the woman is friends with a male feminist enabler? She'll pick him instead of you.

If you aren't a MGTOW/volcel and you can't succeed with either the "red pill model" or the "male feminist model", that makes you a beggar. Beggar's can't be choosers.

You have no basis for that statement. Some of the coolest, most adventurous men I've known are shy around women. How you approach DSR often (if not usually) has little to no relation to who you are outside of DSR.


Actually, this site is a support site. It's on the title page.

At what point did "change yourself because the real you isn't good enough for women" become the forum mantra?


No actually. However, "support for the dating challenged" comes to mind. As for the 'two kinds of advice sites'; they're both bullshit. Working out and improving yourself should always be about making your own life more enjoyable. Women should never be part of the equation since they won't appreciate that stuff but will instead waste your time and money if you don't pass their looks test beforehand. As for respecting women; who ever got a date for respecting women? On the other hand I can think of quite a few people that I personally know who have gotten plenty dates and sex by being a lying, manipulative cutthroat with no respect for women.


Actually, I'm not MGTOW. Nor am I incel or love-shy. I'm something else entirely now.

I have seen the bullshit that is DSR from the LS/incel side for years only to finally partake in it and find out that it's not all it's cracked up to be. To be honest, while I enjoyed the sex, I was expecting more from my supposed partner than a mindless sheep following a script handed to her by Walt Disney. Thankfully I had my wake up call before I married that idiot had children with her. After that, I took stock of what went wrong in our relationship and cross referenced that information with my dating past and all other women i went out with after her. Do you know what I found? That virtually all women act the same way she did toward men.

Now I see the women and society for what they really are. I also recognize that women have only one thing to offer that I cannot get elsewhere. Otherwise they fail the cost/benefit analysis in every other conceivable way.

So no; I'm not going to change my behavior since there's absolutely nothing wrong with me. I'm not going to add lying, emotional manipulation and a false sense of authority to my personality traits (not to mention spending additional time, money and energy) to satisfy someone who has only one thing I want, but withholds it maliciously, and is otherwise incapable of giving me what I want in a relationship. That's not MGTOW; that's self respect and common sense.

Kudos to you for making an effort to contribute to a solution but it's important for you to understand what these people are up against. Your advice will not work for the "ugly", the poor, the unpopular, the overly honest or those who only have access to women they do not want in the first place.


Who says? How about all the fat and/or misandrist women all over the globe are getting more play than all the men on this forum combined?

There is a difference a mile wide between, "don't be an asshole" and what you are suggesting we do. You're basically saying that to get laid, a woman could simply eat a salad and not be a misandrist bitch (for now); meanwhile, you're telling us to alter our entire personalities and interests to suit what a woman wants. You're basically saying; "take the raw deal". The real fucked up part is that you don't even understand that IF we were to change, we still would have a shitty time with women since they do not respect men who make that kind of change for them. Sure, it's 'sweet' at first, but after a while, they take you for granted.


You don't get it. There is no "success" with women. You spend time energy and money, on a chance to get laid. If you get laid on the regular, you pay on the regular until eventually the woman gives you an ultimatum to stop renting her V and flat out buy it. Now you're fucked because if you say no, the sex stops and you have to (try) start over again with someone else. But if you say yes, your time and money are no longer your own. You are forced (by law) to live a life-style you never wanted only to face a 50% chance that she will divorce your ass and financially bury you.

Is this what you can success?

If you are shy around women, they will think that you are boring. They will never know about your manly adventures if you are too shy to tell them.



What do you mean by "support"? Are you telling me that this is a site where people just pat each other on the back?

True Story: I was unspeakably depressed when I was in my late teens. I went to "support sites" around this time. These were sites where everyone was nicey-nicey and anyone who used "harsh language" was banned. I eventually stopped using those sites because they weren't making me any happier. I cried over my inner pain every day and I still felt like shit.

That's why most people grow out of emo music when they are older. It doesn't make you feel better. Notice how SuperJeff has been crying for years and he still feels like shit on a stick.

I rose out of that Hell through experimentation. I tried talking about politics for a while. That satisfied me for a while, but I eventually got bored of that because I ran out of topics to address and I didn't want to repeat myself.

After that, I realized that I had been supressing my creativity for my whole life due to social anxiety. I wrote some short stories and my friends liked them. My sister liked them. After that, I embraced my imagination. That brought me true happiness. As I descended into my imagination, I stopped caring about the rest of the world ... because fuck them! My imaginary friends all love me! Who cares about real people? They might just be philosophical zombies! If they are real, they are just apes! They're just vertebrates, and I eat vertebrates for lunch every day! Emotional detachment is the key to enlightened happiness and transcendental wisdom.

I initially came to this site to share my wisdom. I find that sharing my wisdom feels good, even if everyone rejects it. I eventually became a fake retard because this site was full of overt misogyny and racism. I pretended to be a moron because I lost all respect for this site and its users. After Mr. C banned me for a sexist joke, I regained respect for this site.

That's why I'm here now. Mr. C (who is a really great guy) has finally put this site under control. Now this is finally a site where I can share my wisdom without a constant barrage of racism and rape trivialization.

Here's my point: Hugboxes don't work. People who rely on hugboxes usually continue to feel like shit. People who use hugboxes are essentially falling to their knees and begging for mercy.

If you want true happiness, embracing your imagination is the first step. Imagination allows us to find happiness without the help of anyone else. It helps us find peace within ourselves. It's an empowering feeling.

When I was younger, I was hyper-empathetic, as some aspies are. I kept thinking "Will someone be upset if I do this? Will someone be upset if I do that?" all the fucking time. I cared so much about other people that I was paralyzed by my own sense of right and wrong. Now, my imagination feels more real than the real world. My sense of guilt has been inhibited. My sense of shame has been inhibited. I can always descend into Imagination Land in order to overcome any sort of pain. I don't need to care about anything anymore. It's a liberating feeling. I feel like I can do anything.

If I had continued to rely on those hugbox sites, I would still feel like shit.



Some of the guys on this site are literally suicidal because they can't get laid. When your life is literally on the line, it's time to change who you are ... so you don't become a dead, empty shell hanging from the ceiling.



Fine. Suit yourself.



Some men manage to do that. Woman are different from one another.



Those men usually get laid because they are confident. They speak about their manly adventures.

Their relationships usually don't last very long. When a woman dates jock douchebag, she will usually realize that he is a scumbag after a while and then dump him. That's why these guys constantly go from one woman to the next.



Wait. What are you talking about? Walt Disney?

I actually find that Disney fangirls are cute. They expect me to be sensitive and romantic, but I can do that. At least they don't behave in a masculine way. At least they don't use biting sarcasm. At least they aren't sad sacks. At least they don't spout radfem nonsense.

Disney is underrated. I don't know whey so many guys ridicule adult Disney fangirls. They've always been kind to me.



This completely contradicts my personal experiences with women. I've dealt with women who treated me like shit. I've dealt with nice women who called me a "hot stud". Women are different from one another.



That sounds an awful lot like MGTOW though. How exactly are you different from a MGTOW?



I'll just repeat what I said about suicide. Some people here are literally suicidal over a lack of sex. Those are the men who I am talking to.



Some women are lucky enough to know a male radfem who will put up with that crap. Others? Not so much.



I'll say it again. Some guys here are suicidal.



It's not what I call success, but, like I said, some guys here are literally suicidal. Some guys here believe that being denied sex is worse than getting raped. These guys are really desperate.

If that isn't you, then that's fine ... but some guys here are that desperate. I'm giving them advice on how to change themselves from the ground up. Hugboxes won't help them. They never helped me.

What they think and what really is are two different things. rather than call shy guys boring (which you cannot prove) an accurate statement would have been "women will not take the time to get to know shy guys".


Read it again...



So instead of allowing everyone to recognize the raw deal we've been given and learn to happy in our own skin, you're a proponent of telling suicidal people "You aren't good enough. Go change". Tell me; how many suicides have you prevented with this line of thinking?


I will "suit myself"... And it's high time everyone else here did the same. If someone doesn't appreciate you for who you are, they damn sure won't respect you when you compromise yourself to become someone you are not.


Actually no. Buying a woman's attention like a prostitute and "saying all the right things" (lying) to get in someone's panties is hardly respectful of women.


Yes, exactly. ...confident enough to buy women's attention like a prostitute and "say all the right things" (lying) to get in their panties. Meanwhile; they've already passed the LMS test that you conveniently forgot about.


Fan girls? Underrated? Don't be daft. Disney is THE prime source of everyone's DSR problems. It promotes irrational thinking and unrealistic expectations; it creates nothing but feminist propaganda, fairy tales and fur-fagotry. Now every woman believes she's a princess (if not a "goddess") waiting for her happy ending. She will wait her entire life for the perfect partner; dismissing every decent (but not perfect) man she comes across and shitting on ever man she does give a chance. When that perfect partner never enters their life, she cries foul. Not once would it occur to her to give a normal guy the time of day and treat him well.


So... if you experienced something completely different than what I have, what makes you qualified to tell people "you aren't good enough for women. go change yourself."? Have you actually been in a relationship to see both sides of this equation?


LS, incel, volcel, MGTOW... who cares? I've gone through the entire spectrum and it's always the same story. The difference is; I understand why I don't approach women romantically (spoiler; it's not due to shyness). I also know why I don't (not to be confused with "can't) get laid. so incel is out the window. MGTOW? Don't make me laugh. They're a fractured group of wannabe political activists that seeks validation through cognitive dissonance via youtube videos.

Me? I simply recognize that women have only one thing that I can't get elsewhere and that sex isn't worth the time, money, energy and legal risks needed to obtain it. I didn't need a label or title to come to that conclusion. It was common sense.

You sure do like extremes don't you. Most men will put up with a LOT of bullshit if they're getting sex on the regular. Ask me how I know this.


You know what really helps? Recognizing a raw deal and learning that as painful as it can be, sometime the best thing to do is opt out and move on; preferably with the guidance of people who have been there and done that.

You keep talking about suicide; like I don't have countless reasons and opportunities to either off myself go ape shit and "end up on the news". For some reason, I am strong enough to fight all that and keep on trucking. I understand that not everyone can do this but your way is ultimately more harmful than good. When the human mind can't reconcile its own identity from the illusions you've created to suit someone else's insecurities, there will always be consequences.