In my 30's, I began to develop major depression and an affliction called tinnitus (ringing in the ears). I saw more doctors and specialists than I can remember, but no cause of the noise in my head was ever found. I was suicidal because I couldn't sleep or enjoy anything. I'm not saying my virginity was the culprit, but the stress and anxiety I had felt up to that point was certainly a contributing factor. Being a virgin at 35 (and not being able to even touch a woman) took its toll on me in many ways. Getting on antidepressants helped, but it didn't change my situation with women.

The tinnitus is pretty much under control, and the Lexapro helps with the depression, but my desire for women continues. At 57, I'm still thinking like an 18-y.o. because in a way, I still am 18 mentally and emotionally. I'm that teenager who is still waiting for his first time. I actually have a crush on a girl who can't be any more than 25 that works at a local grocery store. I'm probably older than her father! That's a sick, predatory concept. Of course, I would NEVER hit on her or even flirt (I'd probably be arrested). There are also women closer to my age who I fantasize about. But it's all the same.

I still go to the gym, I have gainful employment, and I seemed to be liked by most people. But women just don't see me as anything more than a nice guy who occasionally makes them laugh.

I would say if you pass your early 20s and you have not racked up any significant DSR experience, then catching up later becomes extremely difficult, and exercise in masochism even.

Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. I'm still thinking like a 14 year old, never mind an 18 year old, because in terms of emotional development, that's where I'm at! My first and last kiss (which doesn't really count, just a peck on the lips at a spin-the-bottle game or two, in 1982!!) was when I was 12. I hadn't even started puberty, my voice hadn't even broken back then. Now my hair is gone and my beard is gray. My nephew is 14, that's the son of my younger sister. I feel I am at his level of emotional maturity when it comes to the female sex, and I am. Next year he will be more emotionally mature than me, if he gets anywhere with a girl (I hope so, but he is very much a beta male, I really hope and pray things work out differently for him).

I develop crushes on women young enough to be my daughter all the time. I have a thing for my neighbor's girlfriend, who is gorgeous, she is 23. Of course even if such women are single, I don't stand a chance. I want to hook up with fortysomething women, but hard to meet such women, who are single. And I have to get over my psychological neuroses before I even try there, and I have to somehow fool such women into thinking that I am actually semi-normal, rather than completely loco, which I really am at this point in time. I think, if I had young women when I was a young man, I wouldn't hunger for them so much now. I hunger for them now more than I did when I was twenty, and at twenty I was a walking erection. I just thought I would get girls easily enough back then, and so in a weird way took for granted what I never even had!

It depends on how you look at it. On the one hand, the older you get, the longer you already have been lonenly and alone. But on the other hand, the older you get, the lesser time remains you still have to spend being love-shy. So as for me personally, although at age 38 I still feel very sad about not being able to find a girlfriend, I'm not as desperate anymore though as I was twenty years ago. Just another 50 or 60 more years or so to go at the most, and my suffering will end. I take comfort in that.

With the greatest respect for you, and from reading your book, I would say you just got things in the wrong order. A romantic relationship can't really kick off until you tell the lady how much you adore being with her! Painful as it is, you simply have to start by talking about how much you adore her (perhaps talk of 'love' should wait a bit longer).

My love life has not been completely straightforward (!!), and my last two relationships (possibly ever) started when I was already older than you are now. They came from a website devoted to sex outside marriage. While I don't want to get your hopes too high, I'd say you never know. However, if you ever get a chance like Hannah again, just stop at the kissing stage, until she gives you a clear signal that you should carry on.

Always STOP and APPLOGISE immediately if she doesn't sound totally happy. If you stop quickly, you haven't blown your chances - you were just moving a bit too fast.

If she has other problems and wants to talk about them, focus on what she has to say, not on your plans to get laid later that evening. Another evening will come along soon.

Even if she takes you into her bedroom (which is a very good sign), start by telling her how much you adore her - preferably while looking her in the eyes.

There is no logic to dating, it is more like cooking, you just have to follow the recipe!

FS

Been there, done that (and I thought we've had this discussion already). If a woman is attracted to you, you don't have to "tell" her anything. My best friend, who has probably been with close to 100 women, has never had to explain his position to any of them. He looked at her, she looked at him. Physical connection. Check. No discussion, no justification. If any particular woman became his girlfriend, he would later tell them how he felt (and vice versa).

I've told many women how I've felt long before I initiated sexual overtures. In every single case, I was told how "sweet" I was, but they didn't feel the same, or they already had a boyfriend. If I had a lick of common sense, I would have wished them well and never called them again. But like the idiot I was I (and probably still am), I "hung in there", foolishly thinking their feelings would change. They never did.

Like Adam Carolla once said, "If a woman tells you she's not interested, take her word for it."

It sounds as though your friend is something of an expert at getting women, but I don't expect you were there to monitor all the conversation from first meeting to them getting into bed! Besides, you (or I) were never going to have a chance with such women unless we were alone on a desert island for about a month.

As in most areas of life, experts can get away with tricks that just don't work for novices!

Most women really want to be told how much you adore them - as the first step of courtship, even before flowers or any other token of affection except perhaps the actual first date meal.

The other crucial thing is to realise that sometimes a girl has something else on her mind - Hannah obviously did over your last meal together. You really have to focus on any problem like that, and let sex wait for a day or so. I think that is went wrong for you and Hannah because she was sick of abusive relationships, and wanted you to be the white knight that took her out of all that - not appear all too similar to the guys hanging round her already.

Your best bet is to appear a lot less focused on sex - let yourself be dragged into it!

You might still succeed, but you need to practice in a mirror, saying something nice to her. Get the wording sorted out in advance, and stick to it, and practice a smile to go with it.

FS

Like no incel has EVER done any of this? Yeah we want to have sex with said woman, but I'm sure we would love to get to know her along the way before or after the clothes come off - same as every other guy.

Also, in regards to Hannah, she WENT back to her abusive ex-boyfriend shortly afterwards, so what you're telling him holds no water whatsoever.

Just a thought, but I personally like to think it gets easier with age as the shallowness and superficialness of youth gets left further in the past.

My own experience has made this for the most ring fairly true.

Well look, I wouldn't argue with you, except the whole purpose of this site, is really to figure out what prevents so many men getting any real sexual satisfaction in life.

To answer your first point, I think a lot of women have had experience of men who want a quick lay period. They are wary about anything that suggests that. All I am saying is that by not listening to what Hannah was trying to tell him because he was thinking about the possibility of finally getting laid, was very understandable, but probably a terrible mistake. I reckon I was much more shy than Alone99, so I simply couldn't make that mistake, but all I can tell you is that my girlfriend met a number of men from that dating scheme that we both joined. One of the men sat on a sofa in her room and suggested that she come and join him. She decided that was too fast and dumped him. If I had been less shy, maybe I would have tried the same trick, and I would have been dumped too!

Being very shy needn't turn a girl off, but I think it is better to stay shy and move very slowly - and always be sensitive to any suggestion that your girl wants to stop. There is a natural pace for these things, but if you have been LS for years, you have no feel for what that pace might be. It is better to feel she is pulling you into sex than the other way about.

I can tell you that there were several points in our year-long build up to full sex when I had to back off sharply. On one occasion, we had got most of our clothes off, and I tried to strip off the rest of mine and join her in bed. She may have actually said "Stop!" - I don't remember - but I certainly did stop. I didn't argue, or discuss what I would like to do with her, I just crawled into my shell - but I saved the day, and shortly afterwards we really did go all the way.

LS men who try not to talk about their budding feelings towards their partner while attempting to move things along physically probably give the impression of being creepy and insincere. If women generally understood about LS, I think things might be quite different - but they try to interpret what they see, and never guess the real turmoil behind the face. This is the big problem with being LS - when we are with a girl, they are trying to understand us, and our general behaviour makes absolutely no sense at all to them.

Hannah wanted to discuss something, and she was upset. Presumably what she had to say was that she was being pestered by this abusive guy. Don't ask me why some women go back to men like that, because I don't know - however, I think perhaps she was hoping Alone99 would rescue her.

I also think that if a guy who is a virgin gets asked straight out if he is still a virgin - as he was - it is almost certainly better to admit it in some slightly roundabout way. "Yeah I guess the right girl has never turned up!". A lie will definitely sound insincere, whereas the truth is perhaps a way into having a meaningful chat about where you want your relationship to go. It is maybe worth anticipating such critical questions in advance and deciding what to say.

FS